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Woman over radio:
Okay.

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Woman: Where were
these found, guys?

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( mumbling )

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Green one
on the left side there,

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red one
on the right side.

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Man over radio:
Two thirty-one.

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Man
Two thirty-one.

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( mechanical whirring )

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Don't let nobody
come up here.

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Don't-- nobody in here.

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( music playing )

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( mumbling )

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00:01:44,767 --> 00:01:46,300
- ( helicopter whirring )
- ( police siren )

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Male reporter: The police
in West Memphis, Arkansas,

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confirmed today
that three young boys
were brutally murdered.

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The bodies of Weaver
Elementary School
second graders,

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00:01:53,533 --> 00:01:56,333
Steven Branch,
Christopher Byers,
and Michael Moore,

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were pulled
from a shallow creek
earlier today.

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There are rumors
that the boys may have been
sexually mutilated.

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The police say
that they do not yet

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have any suspects
in the case.

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00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,066
The missing
8-year-old boys

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were discovered in an area
known as Robin Hood Hills,

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a secluded patch of woods

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00:02:10,934 --> 00:02:12,834
behind the Blue Beacon
Truck Wash

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along Interstate 40
in West Memphis.

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♪ Moon is full,
never seems to change ♪

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♪ Just labeled
mentally deranged... ♪

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Woman:
Imagine all the evil
that you could think of,

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to how someone
could be murdered.

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And that's how
these three children died.

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Man:
No family should have
to go through this.

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00:02:34,467 --> 00:02:37,400
Unfortunately,
it's gonna happen
again somewhere.

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Another town.

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It's gonna happen again,
I'm sure.

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Lot of bad people
out there in the world.

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Man
I don't know why

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00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,100
these three little boys
were murdered.

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00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:51,133
Did they see something
they were not supposed
to see?

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00:02:51,133 --> 00:02:53,300
Did they hear things
they were not supposed
to hear?

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I-- I do not know that.
I see no reason.

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00:02:55,834 --> 00:02:57,867
I-- I see no motive

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00:02:57,867 --> 00:03:01,100
for why these three little boys
were murdered.

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Man:
Live from KAIT-8 TV,

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00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:08,667
good neighbors
you can turn to

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00:03:08,667 --> 00:03:11,433
for news, weather,
and sports.

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00:03:11,433 --> 00:03:12,633
Tony Brooks,

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00:03:12,633 --> 00:03:14,133
Diana Davis,

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00:03:14,133 --> 00:03:15,734
Terry Wood,

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00:03:15,734 --> 00:03:17,300
and Dick Clay.

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00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:21,100
This is KAIT-8 News.

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00:03:21,100 --> 00:03:22,500
Good evening,
I'm Diana Davis.

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And I'm Tony Brooks.

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In a statement
given to the police

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and obtained
by a Memphis newspaper,

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17-year-old
Jessie Misskelley

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00:03:29,533 --> 00:03:32,467
allegedly confesses
to watching two other suspects

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00:03:32,467 --> 00:03:34,433
choke, rape,
and sexually mutilate

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three West Memphis
second-graders.

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Jenna Newton reports.

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00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:39,834
Jenna Newton: According
to the published report,

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Misskelley told police
he watched

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00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,567
18-year-old Damien Echols
and 16-year-old Jason Baldwin

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00:03:46,567 --> 00:03:50,000
brutalize the children
with a club and a knife.

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00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,533
The report says
Misskelley told police

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00:03:52,533 --> 00:03:55,100
Echols and Baldwin
raped one of the boys

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00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:57,967
and sexually mutilated
another as part

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00:03:57,967 --> 00:03:59,433
of a cult ritual.

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Misskelley is quoted
as saying

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he did not take part
in the rape and mutilation,

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but that he helped subdue
one victim

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00:04:06,133 --> 00:04:07,800
who tried to escape.

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00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,567
At a press conference,
Inspector Gary Gitchell said

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00:04:10,567 --> 00:04:13,967
the case against the accused
teens is very strong.

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Man:
Scale of one to 10, how solid
do you think the case is?

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Eleven.

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( all clamoring,
applauding )

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Newton:
It appears satanic worship

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00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,800
may have played
a role in the murders.

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00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,300
Since the very beginning
of the investigation

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00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:30,300
people all around
West Memphis

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00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:33,934
have come forward with
stories of satanic cults.

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00:04:33,934 --> 00:04:37,200
Reverend Tommy Stacy's church
is down the street

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00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,467
from where
the bodies were found.

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One year ago,
Damien Echols told

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the church's youth minister

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he had a pact
with the devil,

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00:04:45,033 --> 00:04:46,900
and he was
going to hell.

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00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:48,633
( church bell rings )

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00:04:48,633 --> 00:04:50,600
Tommy Stacy:
I do know that
my youth director

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00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,467
talked to Damien extensively

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00:04:53,467 --> 00:04:55,734
at the revival
that we had,

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00:04:55,734 --> 00:04:58,000
and he told him
that he could not be saved,

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00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,367
that he could not

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00:04:59,367 --> 00:05:01,100
give his heart
to Jesus.

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00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:02,767
And my youth director

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00:05:02,767 --> 00:05:04,967
then tried to get him
to take a Bible.

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00:05:04,967 --> 00:05:06,233
And he made the statement

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00:05:06,233 --> 00:05:08,233
that he could not take a Bible
because if he did,

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00:05:08,233 --> 00:05:09,567
the rest of them
would get him.

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00:05:09,567 --> 00:05:14,066
In West Memphis, Jenna Newton,
KAIT-8 Night News.

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00:05:14,066 --> 00:05:16,767
Christopher never
hurt anybody.

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00:05:16,767 --> 00:05:19,934
He had a gentle,
loving, and giving heart.

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00:05:19,934 --> 00:05:21,967
And they crucified him
in those woods.

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00:05:23,967 --> 00:05:26,867
And they humiliated
his little body.

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They took his little manhood

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before he even knew
what it was.

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And I hate them for it.

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00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,567
I've never hated
anybody in my life.

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And I hate these three.

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- And the mothers
that bore them.
- ( tapping table )

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I can't imagine...

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00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:58,333
what was going through
Michael's mind.

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00:05:59,734 --> 00:06:04,567
You know, was he...
calling for me?

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00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:08,800
How long did they
leave him there tied up

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00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,066
on that ditch bank
before they decided
to kill him?

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00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:14,233
I mean, what were
they doing to him?

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00:06:14,233 --> 00:06:18,200
Was his--
was he conscious
or unconscious?

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Did he watch
the other two boys...
get cut?

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00:06:22,734 --> 00:06:25,100
Moore:
He was really being killed
by real monsters.

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00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:27,800
( kids shouting )

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00:06:34,333 --> 00:06:37,600
( laughs )
God. On TV!

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00:06:39,100 --> 00:06:40,600
- Man: Now.
- Pam, first of all,

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00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,100
what is--
what are you holding
in your hand there--

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00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:47,066
In my hand,
it's Stevie's Boy Scout.

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00:06:47,066 --> 00:06:48,967
I got it back yesterday.

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00:06:48,967 --> 00:06:53,133
And I been wearing it
around my head like this.

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00:06:53,133 --> 00:06:54,533
( chuckles )

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00:06:54,533 --> 00:06:56,467
Did he--
did he like scouting?

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00:06:56,467 --> 00:06:58,867
Oh, he loved it.
He loved it, yeah.

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00:06:58,867 --> 00:07:00,266
He loved it.

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00:07:00,266 --> 00:07:03,066
Man
Do you blame yourself
for this?

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I have. I have.
I've been, uh-- I've--

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00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:08,066
I have been on
a guilt trip about it.

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But... it wasn't my fault.
I was at work.

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00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,266
Have you contemplated
joining Stevie, um...

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00:07:15,266 --> 00:07:17,000
- Have I thought--
- ...before your natural--

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00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,133
- Would I ever...
- Have you thought
about suicide?

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00:07:20,133 --> 00:07:22,100
Have I? Oh.

142
00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:25,734
Uh... suicide?

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00:07:25,734 --> 00:07:27,500
I've-- I've felt
like dying,

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00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:29,233
but not suicide,
you know.

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00:07:29,233 --> 00:07:31,834
No, not suicide.

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00:07:31,834 --> 00:07:33,367
Do you feel
that the people
that did this

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00:07:33,367 --> 00:07:36,867
- were worshipping, uh--
- Satan? Yes, I do.

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00:07:36,867 --> 00:07:37,967
Why?

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00:07:37,967 --> 00:07:39,967
Just look
at the freaks.

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00:07:39,967 --> 00:07:42,000
I mean,
just look at them.

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00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,300
They look
like punks.

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00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:46,000
( music playing )

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00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,533
Well, Jessie told me
he didn't do it.

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Didn't have
anything to do with it.

155
00:08:11,734 --> 00:08:13,200
He wasn't there.

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00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,934
- And I believe him.
- ( camera clicks )

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00:08:19,934 --> 00:08:22,300
I think the cops just
can't find who done it...

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00:08:23,967 --> 00:08:27,100
and they gotta put it
on somebody.

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00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:30,467
I wanna tell the whole world
my son is innocent

160
00:08:30,467 --> 00:08:34,266
- because I know
he is innocent.
- ( camera clicks )

161
00:08:34,266 --> 00:08:36,800
- I know where he was...
- ( camera clicks )

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00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,266
and I know he's innocent,

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00:08:38,266 --> 00:08:42,233
and I wanna tell the world,
and I want the world to know.

164
00:08:44,567 --> 00:08:47,633
This boy is not capable

165
00:08:47,633 --> 00:08:51,700
of the crime that he has,
uh, been arrested for.

166
00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:54,633
I've seen him take
a little kitten,

167
00:08:54,633 --> 00:08:58,100
and-- and love it just like
you'd love a little baby.

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00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:00,633
- ( camera clicks )
- It's like a nightmare,

169
00:09:00,633 --> 00:09:03,133
a nightmare that you
can't wake up from.

170
00:09:03,133 --> 00:09:05,934
Our son's innocent.

171
00:09:05,934 --> 00:09:08,100
We intend to prove it.

172
00:09:10,533 --> 00:09:12,400
John Mark Byers:
"Yea, though I walk through

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00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,567
the valley of the shadow
of death,

174
00:09:14,567 --> 00:09:16,800
I shall fear no evil."

175
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,800
And I'm not scared
of the devil.

176
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,867
I gotta know
who my comforter is.

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00:09:22,867 --> 00:09:26,166
"Thy rod and Thy staff
comfort me."

178
00:09:26,166 --> 00:09:27,367
And I thank you, Lord,

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00:09:27,367 --> 00:09:28,800
for letting me
be able to believe

180
00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,533
in that
with all my heart.

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00:09:31,533 --> 00:09:35,533
I hope y'all really believe
in your master the Satan,

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00:09:35,533 --> 00:09:37,300
Sleuthfoot, devil himself,

183
00:09:37,300 --> 00:09:39,400
'cause he's not
gonna help you.

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00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,600
He's gonna laugh at you,
mock at you, and torture you.

185
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,000
He didn't need your help,

186
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:46,934
the devil's got
all the devils he needs.

187
00:09:46,934 --> 00:09:48,400
The good Lord said Lucifer

188
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,233
and a third of the angels
were cast from Heaven.

189
00:09:51,233 --> 00:09:53,900
He didn't need them,
but he took their mind,

190
00:09:53,900 --> 00:09:55,300
and he manipulated them.

191
00:09:55,300 --> 00:09:58,200
And they prayed to Satan,
and they prayed to the devil.

192
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,066
And they had their satanic
worship services out here,

193
00:10:01,066 --> 00:10:06,333
and they had all types
of wild homosexual orgies,
I've been told.

194
00:10:06,333 --> 00:10:07,600
Crazy things.

195
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,867
To me, this place as I stand
is like hell on Earth.

196
00:10:13,867 --> 00:10:17,834
Because I know
that three babies were killed

197
00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:20,100
right out here
where I stand.

198
00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:22,400
I know my son was castrated,

199
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,200
and possibly
laid there on that bank
and bled to death.

200
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,233
I know he was choked.

201
00:10:28,233 --> 00:10:32,033
I know one boy's head was
beat in beyond recognition.

202
00:10:32,033 --> 00:10:34,100
I know one
little boy was skinned

203
00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:36,400
almost like a animal.

204
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,667
Cut, had to shave his head,

205
00:10:38,667 --> 00:10:42,767
had all types
of injuries to the head

206
00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:44,266
where they just
kept beating,

207
00:10:44,266 --> 00:10:45,500
and pounding on them,

208
00:10:45,500 --> 00:10:47,300
and killing them,
and killing them.

209
00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:48,500
It's like they enjoyed it.

210
00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,400
They killed them
two or three times.

211
00:10:52,567 --> 00:10:56,400
Jessie Misskelley Jr.,
Jason Baldwin,

212
00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,333
Damien Echols,
I hope your master the devil

213
00:11:00,333 --> 00:11:02,066
does take you soon.

214
00:11:02,066 --> 00:11:05,100
I want you
to meet him real soon.

215
00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,700
And the day you die,
I'm gonna praise God.

216
00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:12,133
And I make you a promise,
the day you die,

217
00:11:12,133 --> 00:11:14,533
every year on May 5th

218
00:11:14,533 --> 00:11:17,100
I'm gonna come
to your graveside,

219
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:18,867
I'm gonna spit on you,

220
00:11:18,867 --> 00:11:21,667
I'm gonna curse
the day you were born,

221
00:11:21,667 --> 00:11:24,033
and I'm sure
while I'm standing there,

222
00:11:24,033 --> 00:11:26,233
I'm gonna have to have
other bodily functions

223
00:11:26,233 --> 00:11:28,400
let go
upon your grave.

224
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,200
I promise you
as God is my witness,

225
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,533
I'll visit
all three of your graves.

226
00:11:43,367 --> 00:11:47,367
The statement Jessie made
to the police is-- is a lie.

227
00:11:47,367 --> 00:11:48,700
It's not true, you know.

228
00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:50,033
I don't see why he would do

229
00:11:50,033 --> 00:11:51,734
something like that
to another person.

230
00:11:51,734 --> 00:11:54,066
I can see where they might
think I was in a cult

231
00:11:54,066 --> 00:11:56,300
'cause I wear
Metallica T-shirts

232
00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:59,033
and stuff like that, but...

233
00:11:59,033 --> 00:12:00,800
I know I didn't do
nothing like that.

234
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,166
I couldn't kill
an animal or a person.

235
00:12:03,166 --> 00:12:07,066
I don't worship the devil
or anything like that.

236
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:12,066
I worship God,
you know, like everybody--

237
00:12:12,066 --> 00:12:15,233
every normal person in this--
around here does.

238
00:12:15,233 --> 00:12:19,000
I got a favorite pet.
A pet iguana.

239
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,367
I've had it
for a little over a year now.

240
00:12:21,367 --> 00:12:23,500
I usually
go fishing by myself,

241
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:25,700
right in my backyard.

242
00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:26,867
Just go out there

243
00:12:26,867 --> 00:12:28,300
and my pet cat would be
out there.

244
00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:30,700
His name's Charlie.

245
00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:33,333
Whenever I catch a fish
I just give it to him.

246
00:12:33,333 --> 00:12:35,400
I didn't kill
these three little boys.

247
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,967
I didn't kill
those three little boys.

248
00:12:37,967 --> 00:12:39,967
They were, like,
under a lot of pressure.

249
00:12:39,967 --> 00:12:42,834
They had to find somebody
to lay this off on

250
00:12:42,834 --> 00:12:45,934
before people started
losing their jobs.

251
00:12:45,934 --> 00:12:47,633
And the public
was getting real upset,

252
00:12:47,633 --> 00:12:49,700
saying the cops
were incompetent,

253
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:50,967
couldn't do their jobs,

254
00:12:50,967 --> 00:12:52,667
so they had to do
something fast.

255
00:12:53,867 --> 00:12:56,066
And we were, like,
we were the obvious choice

256
00:12:56,066 --> 00:12:58,834
because we stood out
from everybody else.

257
00:13:02,767 --> 00:13:05,433
So it worked out
to their advantage.

258
00:13:13,533 --> 00:13:16,066
( metal locks slamming )

259
00:13:16,066 --> 00:13:18,233
Daniel Stidham:
No one's gonna be
saying that

260
00:13:18,233 --> 00:13:19,800
you're stupid
or that you're dumb--

261
00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,200
( stutters )
or making fun of you,

262
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,133
but the court's
gonna be very interested
in determining

263
00:13:25,133 --> 00:13:27,567
exactly at what level
you are functioning.

264
00:13:27,567 --> 00:13:30,867
How well you're able to read.
How well you're able
to write.

265
00:13:30,867 --> 00:13:32,834
- Things of that nature.
- Uh-huh.

266
00:13:32,834 --> 00:13:34,266
- That make sense?
- Mm-hmm.

267
00:13:34,266 --> 00:13:39,600
Okay. So, if the court
determines that-- that
you are operating,

268
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,533
below average,
then there's a possibility

269
00:13:42,533 --> 00:13:43,967
that the court
will not be allowed

270
00:13:43,967 --> 00:13:45,300
or the state
will not be allowed

271
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:47,266
to impose
the death penalty
against you.

272
00:13:47,266 --> 00:13:49,300
- Do you understand
what that means?
- Yeah.

273
00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:50,834
We've got about 10 weeks

274
00:13:50,834 --> 00:13:52,834
before the trial
comes up in January.

275
00:13:52,834 --> 00:13:57,233
- Yeah.
- Are you looking forward
to just having the trial?

276
00:13:57,233 --> 00:14:00,900
- ( phone ringing )
- A little bit,
but not much.

277
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,967
( continues ringing )

278
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,367
( receiver clicks )

279
00:14:10,367 --> 00:14:13,100
- Hello.
- Woman: Operator,
I have a collect call.

280
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:14,967
- Your name, please?
- Misskelley: Jessie.

281
00:14:14,967 --> 00:14:16,367
- Will you pay?
- Yes, ma'am.

282
00:14:16,367 --> 00:14:17,767
Thank you.

283
00:14:17,767 --> 00:14:19,033
- Hey, son.
- Misskelley: Hey.

284
00:14:19,033 --> 00:14:20,367
- How you doing?
- All right.

285
00:14:20,367 --> 00:14:21,500
You doing all right?
That's good.

286
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:23,367
I been doing all right.

287
00:14:23,367 --> 00:14:25,900
- But my hand still hurts.
-  Your hand still hurts?

288
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:28,467
- Yeah.
-  Did you ever find out
if it was broke or not?

289
00:14:28,467 --> 00:14:33,300
No, I ain't found out.
It-- I can move it.

290
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,734
- But--
- Well, if you can
move it, it's not broke.

291
00:14:35,734 --> 00:14:37,867
( stutters )
It just-- it hurts.

292
00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:39,467
Well, if you can move it,
it's not broke.

293
00:14:39,467 --> 00:14:40,633
It's gonna hurt for a while

294
00:14:40,633 --> 00:14:43,166
'cause you bruised it
pretty good.

295
00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:44,967
You just gotta learn not
to hit them walls.

296
00:14:44,967 --> 00:14:46,467
Hit somebody else.

297
00:14:47,567 --> 00:14:48,800
- Jack his jaw.
- Yeah.

298
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,467
There wasn't nobody
in my room to hit.

299
00:14:50,467 --> 00:14:52,767
- Oh, okay. ( chuckles )
- So I just hit the--

300
00:14:52,767 --> 00:14:54,934
- Well--
- I didn't hit the wall,
I hit the commode.

301
00:14:54,934 --> 00:14:58,133
- Hit the commode?
- Yeah, I hit it on the side.

302
00:14:58,133 --> 00:15:00,734
- Well, you can sure--
- Didn't even put a dent
in it, either.

303
00:15:00,734 --> 00:15:03,333
- ( laughs )
- That must be
a hard commode, man.

304
00:15:03,333 --> 00:15:04,967
I heard that.

305
00:15:04,967 --> 00:15:06,600
What time
y'all gonna come up?

306
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:08,266
- I don't know.
- Y'all can come up anytime

307
00:15:08,266 --> 00:15:09,934
'cause y'all be
in here with me.

308
00:15:09,934 --> 00:15:14,166
Jessie Sr.:
Well, uh, we'll see
you Saturday.

309
00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:16,500
( clock ticking )

310
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,834
( car approaching )

311
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:38,500
David Burnett:
They're gonna have to go
through the metal detector

312
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:40,467
when you come
through the front door.

313
00:15:40,467 --> 00:15:42,734
Every-- I want everybody
to do that.

314
00:15:42,734 --> 00:15:44,900
They've got
that portable thing
that they can bring

315
00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:47,834
from Little Rock,
if you need it.

316
00:15:47,834 --> 00:15:49,533
Like the airport deal.

317
00:15:49,533 --> 00:15:52,700
But we couldn't afford
no $3,000 metal detector,

318
00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:56,500
so what I planned on doing
was using two portables
at this door.

319
00:15:56,500 --> 00:16:00,533
That's why I want all--
everybody outside of lawyers,

320
00:16:00,533 --> 00:16:03,200
and I want them
to come through this door.

321
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:08,200
Yeah, there's
a potential problem area
with the-- the...

322
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,233
the strong feelings
of the family,

323
00:16:10,233 --> 00:16:11,567
and that's
to be understood,

324
00:16:11,567 --> 00:16:14,667
so security, not only coming
in and out of the courtroom

325
00:16:14,667 --> 00:16:15,934
( stutters ) is a problem,

326
00:16:15,934 --> 00:16:19,667
but, uh, keeping
the onlookers and the family,

327
00:16:19,667 --> 00:16:22,033
( stutters ) and people
segregated from--

328
00:16:22,033 --> 00:16:24,133
from the-- the accused
is another problem

329
00:16:24,133 --> 00:16:25,533
that you'll--
you'll have, Darwin.

330
00:16:25,533 --> 00:16:28,533
My intention was to bring
this boy in before--

331
00:16:28,533 --> 00:16:31,367
long before court,
and have him inside.

332
00:16:31,367 --> 00:16:33,900
Stidham:
Obviously, I'm very
concerned about security,

333
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,633
simply because
the death threats

334
00:16:35,633 --> 00:16:37,433
and other things
that have happened,

335
00:16:37,433 --> 00:16:40,600
but I don't wanna give
the jury the impression,

336
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,500
if we have 20 state troopers
and 50 county deputies,

337
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,934
and-- and it's gonna give
the impression to the jury

338
00:16:47,934 --> 00:16:51,200
that my client
is a very dangerous person,
which he's not.

339
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,100
And I don't want
the jury to-- to get
the wrong impression,

340
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:55,867
I don't want there to be
such a circus

341
00:16:55,867 --> 00:16:58,567
in the courtroom
with reporters and cameras,

342
00:16:58,567 --> 00:17:00,767
that the jury forgets
about what they're here for,

343
00:17:00,767 --> 00:17:02,300
and that is
to administer justice.

344
00:17:04,033 --> 00:17:06,567
John Fogelman :
We expect the proof's
going to show that

345
00:17:06,567 --> 00:17:08,834
this defendant confessed,

346
00:17:08,834 --> 00:17:13,066
that he was not
coerced, um...

347
00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:16,266
The-- we do not contend
that the proof's going to show

348
00:17:16,266 --> 00:17:19,400
that every word that came out
of his mouth was the truth.

349
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,200
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury,

350
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,667
this statement
that Mr. Misskelley gave

351
00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:25,734
the West Memphis
Police Department

352
00:17:25,734 --> 00:17:28,066
is a false story.

353
00:17:28,066 --> 00:17:29,734
The interrogation techniques

354
00:17:29,734 --> 00:17:31,800
that were deployed against
Mr. Misskelley

355
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,433
at the time of his statement
on June the 3rd

356
00:17:34,433 --> 00:17:38,233
rendered him
completely incapable.

357
00:17:38,233 --> 00:17:39,367
It-- it broke his will.

358
00:17:39,367 --> 00:17:42,900
They scared him
beyond all measures.

359
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:47,166
The proof is going to show
that this defendant

360
00:17:47,166 --> 00:17:50,567
was an accomplice
to Damien Echols

361
00:17:50,567 --> 00:17:54,567
and Jason Baldwin
in the commission of these

362
00:17:54,567 --> 00:17:58,967
horrifying murders,
and we will ask you

363
00:17:58,967 --> 00:18:02,533
to return
your verdict of guilty

364
00:18:02,533 --> 00:18:05,166
on three counts
of capital murder.

365
00:18:05,166 --> 00:18:07,867
( children yelling,
dog barking )

366
00:18:07,867 --> 00:18:10,300
Lee Rush:
We don't know
what the truth is,

367
00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:15,133
but when it really
gets down to brass tacks...

368
00:18:15,133 --> 00:18:17,467
his daddy and I are gonna look
him square in the eyes

369
00:18:17,467 --> 00:18:20,033
and say, "Son, did you do this?

370
00:18:20,033 --> 00:18:23,266
Did-- was you even there?"

371
00:18:23,266 --> 00:18:25,266
That's when
we will believe.

372
00:18:25,266 --> 00:18:27,667
Well, if he told me
he did it...

373
00:18:29,533 --> 00:18:33,800
which I don't believe he did,
but if he told me he did it...

374
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,000
he'd have
to do his time.

375
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,767
Suffer the consequences.

376
00:18:37,767 --> 00:18:42,867
If he admits to this,
he would be strictly
on his own.

377
00:18:42,867 --> 00:18:45,967
We wouldn't even
send him a dollar
for a pack of cigarettes.

378
00:18:45,967 --> 00:18:48,333
- No. No, you're wrong there.
-  Yes, we would.

379
00:18:48,333 --> 00:18:49,967
- No, I would.
- No.

380
00:18:49,967 --> 00:18:51,667
He's my son!

381
00:18:53,166 --> 00:18:54,867
I'll send him money.

382
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,700
But he will have
to do his time.

383
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:01,200
This is...

384
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,767
I wouldn't give him
a nickel.

385
00:19:03,767 --> 00:19:06,100
- He's my son.
-  Now, we could be
talking about--

386
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:09,333
- He's my flesh and blood.
-  We could be talking
about my son.

387
00:19:09,333 --> 00:19:10,734
Well?

388
00:19:10,734 --> 00:19:14,767
If my son did something
that horrible, that--

389
00:19:14,767 --> 00:19:16,700
no, I wouldn't give him
a nickel.

390
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,533
- Let him suffer.
- You can't turn
your blood away.

391
00:19:19,533 --> 00:19:21,133
I don't know how
you say you could,

392
00:19:21,133 --> 00:19:23,133
and we're gonna have
a problem over this.

393
00:19:23,133 --> 00:19:25,667
But I know how it is
being up there in jail
without anything.

394
00:19:25,667 --> 00:19:27,767
( chuckles )
Well, that's beside
the point.

395
00:19:27,767 --> 00:19:31,700
If he-- if he's guilty...
if he's guilty

396
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:34,767
of doing this
to these little boys...

397
00:19:34,767 --> 00:19:35,967
- No.
- Well, he's not.

398
00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:40,867
Well, I'm saying
he's not, too, but...

399
00:19:40,867 --> 00:19:45,433
if he happens to be--
if it's proven... no.

400
00:19:45,433 --> 00:19:47,300
Forget it, no.

401
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:49,033
No.

402
00:19:49,033 --> 00:19:52,166
But I don't
believe he did it.

403
00:19:52,166 --> 00:19:53,900
I'll never
believe he did it.

404
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,033
This is to Jessie Jr.,
today's his 18th birthday,

405
00:20:04,033 --> 00:20:05,400
and I haven't seen him,

406
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,433
I don't know
where to go see him at,

407
00:20:08,433 --> 00:20:11,533
and we'll sing
"Happy Birthday" to him.

408
00:20:11,533 --> 00:20:15,433
All:
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

409
00:20:15,433 --> 00:20:19,367
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

410
00:20:19,367 --> 00:20:24,734
♪ Happy birthday,
dear Jessie ♪

411
00:20:24,734 --> 00:20:29,033
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

412
00:20:29,033 --> 00:20:33,233
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

413
00:20:33,233 --> 00:20:37,367
♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

414
00:20:37,367 --> 00:20:41,934
♪ Happy birthday,
dear Jessie ♪

415
00:20:41,934 --> 00:20:46,500
♪ Happy birthday to you. ♪

416
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:51,200
- And don't smoke too much.
- ( laughing )

417
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,834
Woman:
Now he's legal
to get them, ain't he?

418
00:20:53,834 --> 00:20:55,734
Jessie Sr.:
Yeah, he's legal
to smoke now.

419
00:20:55,734 --> 00:20:57,767
( laughing )

420
00:20:59,867 --> 00:21:01,166
Shelby Misskelley:
I may not be

421
00:21:01,166 --> 00:21:02,934
his biological mother,
but giving birth

422
00:21:02,934 --> 00:21:04,867
don't make a parent.

423
00:21:04,867 --> 00:21:08,767
And I've had him
since he was four.

424
00:21:08,767 --> 00:21:11,667
And... it took me
about a year

425
00:21:11,667 --> 00:21:14,967
to assure that little boy
I was gonna be here for him.

426
00:21:14,967 --> 00:21:16,900
He wouldn't wanna go
to school.

427
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,133
He wouldn't wanna go
outside and play

428
00:21:19,133 --> 00:21:21,100
because he afraid
I wouldn't be here when--

429
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:22,500
when he come in.

430
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,300
And when he was in kindergarten
if he happened to come in

431
00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:26,400
and I happened to not be

432
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,467
where he could see me
when he first come in,

433
00:21:28,467 --> 00:21:31,900
he'd be hysterical
when I got to him.

434
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:36,300
And... I've always
known that...

435
00:21:38,367 --> 00:21:41,600
he was--
he had a problem.

436
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:47,066
And I... I've always been
real protective of him.

437
00:21:48,934 --> 00:21:50,367
Mom sent me this one.

438
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,667
"There are
all sorts of sons.

439
00:21:55,667 --> 00:21:58,867
Sons can be slouchy,
sons can be sweet.

440
00:21:58,867 --> 00:22:01,533
Sons can be grouchy."

441
00:22:01,533 --> 00:22:04,867
It says, "Sons can be neat.
Sons can be broke,

442
00:22:04,867 --> 00:22:07,734
sons can be well-to-do.

443
00:22:07,734 --> 00:22:10,200
But no son could ever be loved
more than you."

444
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,834
And it says,
"Happy Birthday."

445
00:22:11,834 --> 00:22:14,100
I cry a lot
when I'm in here

446
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,467
'cause I miss my family
and everything and...

447
00:22:17,467 --> 00:22:20,633
and I just cry a lot,
you know?

448
00:22:20,633 --> 00:22:23,633
After that I go to bed,
try to sleep.

449
00:22:26,333 --> 00:22:28,266
Alice Sanders:
My name is Alice Sanders,

450
00:22:28,266 --> 00:22:30,266
my son
was Antonio Sanders,

451
00:22:30,266 --> 00:22:34,400
and he got killed
Halloween night 1990.

452
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,133
Brenda McLean:
My name is Brenda McLean,

453
00:22:36,133 --> 00:22:38,166
and my brother
was stabbed to death.

454
00:22:38,166 --> 00:22:41,633
I'm Brenda East,
and my son Robert,

455
00:22:41,633 --> 00:22:45,133
23 at the time,
was murdered in 1990.

456
00:22:45,133 --> 00:22:46,300
My name's Ann Marlin.

457
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,834
My daughter was
Sheila Elron Dixon.

458
00:22:48,834 --> 00:22:51,767
She was murdered
January the 12th of '91.

459
00:22:58,533 --> 00:23:00,100
I'm Wanda Raymond.

460
00:23:01,834 --> 00:23:05,333
My daughter was
murdered June the 27th,

461
00:23:05,333 --> 00:23:07,867
we think,
we're not sure.

462
00:23:07,867 --> 00:23:10,467
They're calling it
a crime of passion.

463
00:23:10,467 --> 00:23:13,233
He not only
throwed her out

464
00:23:13,233 --> 00:23:15,500
and let her
lay two weeks,

465
00:23:15,500 --> 00:23:19,066
he poured acid on her
to deteriorate her body.

466
00:23:23,967 --> 00:23:26,367
I didn't have
the pleasure of...

467
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,100
telling my daughter good-bye.

468
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:34,233
Funeral was
a closed casket.

469
00:23:34,233 --> 00:23:37,233
This is what
I had on the casket,

470
00:23:37,233 --> 00:23:40,133
and it's still
very unreal to me.

471
00:23:40,133 --> 00:23:43,100
When the telephone rings
I expect it to be her.

472
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,000
My name's Todd Moore.

473
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,800
My son was Michael Moore.
He was murdered along with...

474
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,400
Christopher Byers
and Steven Branch,
May 5th, 1993.

475
00:24:01,266 --> 00:24:03,467
I cannot describe
the pain...

476
00:24:05,433 --> 00:24:07,100
that my family
has went through.

477
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:11,934
You know, they didn't just
kill my son, they killed
part of me.

478
00:24:11,934 --> 00:24:16,000
They killed
a part of my wife,
our daughter.

479
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,200
I'm so frustrated
because it seems like

480
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,834
they have
so much rights.

481
00:24:21,834 --> 00:24:23,266
We have no rights.

482
00:24:23,266 --> 00:24:24,667
Like, it had
in the paper
the other day,

483
00:24:24,667 --> 00:24:27,033
now taxpayers
of Crittenden County

484
00:24:27,033 --> 00:24:28,433
are gonna have
to buy them a suit,

485
00:24:28,433 --> 00:24:30,367
because they don't want
them to go into court

486
00:24:30,367 --> 00:24:32,800
looking like
what they are, criminals.

487
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,834
They're in jail.
They should wear
jail clothes.

488
00:24:35,834 --> 00:24:37,367
Why do they
need to have

489
00:24:37,367 --> 00:24:38,900
a nice suit
bought by the county

490
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:40,066
so they look presentable?

491
00:24:40,066 --> 00:24:43,734
They don't want them
in shackles and chains.

492
00:24:43,734 --> 00:24:47,533
You know, these are not
boys that murdered our kids.

493
00:24:47,533 --> 00:24:49,100
You know,
they stopped being boys,

494
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:50,467
you know,
when they planned this.

495
00:24:50,467 --> 00:24:52,166
And, I hear--

496
00:24:52,166 --> 00:24:54,300
I sit there and watch
their parents and stuff

497
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:55,600
coming out
of court crying,

498
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,233
talking about
their son's rights.

499
00:24:57,233 --> 00:24:58,734
What about
our son's rights?

500
00:24:58,734 --> 00:25:01,100
Where in the hell
was his rights out
on that ditch bank?

501
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:02,600
He had no rights.

502
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,867
He had the rights
to be brutally murdered.

503
00:25:05,867 --> 00:25:10,200
Be beat to death,
a 8-year-old little boy.
Where was his rights?

504
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,633
Diane:
I'm Diane Moore,
Michael Moore's mother.

505
00:25:13,633 --> 00:25:16,300
Last week
in-- in Flash Market,

506
00:25:16,300 --> 00:25:19,800
the Echols man was
in there, staring me down.

507
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,533
Like it was my fault
that I had a child

508
00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:25,533
that his child
could murder.

509
00:25:25,533 --> 00:25:27,000
We set in that big store,

510
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,533
we seen the people
that are supporting
these people,

511
00:25:31,533 --> 00:25:34,100
that look at us
like we're scum,

512
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,867
and these other people
are just...

513
00:25:36,867 --> 00:25:38,700
the greatest thing
that they've ever known.

514
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:42,233
And now they wanna to have
them all just dressed up,

515
00:25:42,233 --> 00:25:45,934
and act like
little choirboys
in court and...

516
00:25:45,934 --> 00:25:48,600
Here you go,
he didn't do
anything wrong.

517
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,667
My son didn't
do anything wrong,
he's just a boy.

518
00:25:52,967 --> 00:25:54,333
Fogelman :
Now on June the 3rd,

519
00:25:54,333 --> 00:25:56,600
did you have
a-- an assignment to locate

520
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,266
a particular person?

521
00:25:58,266 --> 00:26:03,066
My assignment was to contact
Jessie Misskelley, Jr.

522
00:26:03,066 --> 00:26:06,266
At that time was
the defendant a suspect?

523
00:26:06,266 --> 00:26:08,500
- No, sir.
- If he was not a suspect

524
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:10,967
why were you assigned
to contact him?

525
00:26:10,967 --> 00:26:14,200
He was a...
a friend with--

526
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,433
friends with Damien Echols
and Jason Baldwin.

527
00:26:20,367 --> 00:26:24,467
What if anything
did he tell you, uh...

528
00:26:24,467 --> 00:26:27,667
during this conversation
before the tape recording?

529
00:26:27,667 --> 00:26:29,300
Okay, he had told us that

530
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:33,200
he had attended some
satanic-cult-type meetings,

531
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,700
that boys
along with girls
would attend.

532
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:42,033
There would be
sessions of sex,

533
00:26:42,033 --> 00:26:44,600
orgies as he called them.

534
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,433
Uh, that dogs
and animals had
been killed,

535
00:26:50,433 --> 00:26:53,333
and in fact
those animals--

536
00:26:53,333 --> 00:26:57,533
portions of them had
been eaten by the members.

537
00:26:57,533 --> 00:27:00,100
John:
I believe as there's
angels on Earth,

538
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,967
I believe there's
demons on Earth.

539
00:27:02,967 --> 00:27:05,834
And I believe as angels
try to help people,

540
00:27:05,834 --> 00:27:08,400
I believe demons
try to possess

541
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,533
and hurt people
to do the devil's will.

542
00:27:11,533 --> 00:27:15,633
Just how angels try
to help people to do
God's will.

543
00:27:15,633 --> 00:27:17,533
( organ playing )

544
00:27:17,533 --> 00:27:20,600
Man:
♪ O, worship the king ♪

545
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,400
♪ Of glorious above ♪

546
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,567
♪ And gratefully sing ♪

547
00:27:26,567 --> 00:27:29,734
♪ His wonderful love ♪

548
00:27:29,734 --> 00:27:31,767
♪ Our children... ♪

549
00:27:31,767 --> 00:27:33,700
Man
At this time Mark
is gonna sing a song

550
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,467
entitled
"Whatever It Takes,"

551
00:27:35,467 --> 00:27:36,667
a beautiful song.

552
00:27:36,667 --> 00:27:38,500
Y'all listen to him
as he comes and shares.

553
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:40,033
Mark?

554
00:27:48,367 --> 00:27:50,367
John:
I believe the Lord's
gonna direct me,

555
00:27:50,367 --> 00:27:51,600
guide me, and lead me.

556
00:27:53,166 --> 00:27:55,734
And we're gonna give
the glory to Him.

557
00:27:58,867 --> 00:28:01,300
( music playing )

558
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,033
♪ There's a voice ♪

559
00:28:06,033 --> 00:28:08,033
♪ Calling me ♪

560
00:28:08,033 --> 00:28:12,433
♪ From an old rugged tree ♪

561
00:28:12,433 --> 00:28:14,734
♪ And it whispers ♪

562
00:28:14,734 --> 00:28:17,667
♪ "Draw closer ♪

563
00:28:17,667 --> 00:28:21,734
♪ To Me ♪

564
00:28:21,734 --> 00:28:23,934
♪ Leave this world ♪

565
00:28:23,934 --> 00:28:25,867
♪ Far behind ♪

566
00:28:25,867 --> 00:28:29,000
♪ There are no lights ♪

567
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,333
♪ To blind ♪

568
00:28:31,333 --> 00:28:33,400
♪ And a new place ♪

569
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,667
♪ That may you ♪

570
00:28:35,667 --> 00:28:38,900
♪ Will find" ♪

571
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,000
♪ For whatever ♪

572
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,767
♪ It takes ♪

573
00:28:44,767 --> 00:28:47,600
♪ To draw closer ♪

574
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,367
♪ To You, Lord ♪

575
00:28:50,367 --> 00:28:51,967
♪ That's what ♪

576
00:28:51,967 --> 00:28:54,400
♪ I'll be willing ♪

577
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,533
♪ To do ♪

578
00:28:58,533 --> 00:29:01,433
♪ For whatever ♪

579
00:29:01,433 --> 00:29:03,400
♪ It takes ♪

580
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,834
♪ To be more ♪

581
00:29:05,834 --> 00:29:08,533
♪ Like You ♪

582
00:29:08,533 --> 00:29:10,100
♪ That's what ♪

583
00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:12,767
♪ I'll be willing ♪

584
00:29:12,767 --> 00:29:15,000
♪ To do ♪

585
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:18,867
♪ I'll take sunshine... ♪

586
00:29:18,867 --> 00:29:20,200
There's no doubt
in your mind

587
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,500
that at about 5:30 pm,
Jessie was sitting--

588
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:23,834
He was sitting
right down here.

589
00:29:23,834 --> 00:29:26,633
I had seen the police
over there twice.

590
00:29:26,633 --> 00:29:28,500
I'd also seen
little Jessie over there,

591
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,867
and they had talked to him,
and he was talking to me.

592
00:29:30,867 --> 00:29:32,867
- Police officer
talked to him?
- Yes, sir.

593
00:29:32,867 --> 00:29:36,567
They had to find
somebody to pin this on.

594
00:29:36,567 --> 00:29:38,700
This publicity
was getting out of hand.

595
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,433
Stidham:
Could you ask
those folks inside

596
00:29:42,433 --> 00:29:45,200
to step out
for just a second?

597
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,767
Um, I know that
I've talked to--
to each of you,

598
00:29:48,767 --> 00:29:50,800
if not directly,
indirectly.

599
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,300
We need to be very,
very careful about

600
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:56,500
who we talk to
with regard to the media
involved in this case.

601
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:58,667
There are several members
of the media

602
00:29:58,667 --> 00:30:00,567
who apparently
have no ethics,

603
00:30:00,567 --> 00:30:03,500
and have decided that
they're gonna do everything
they can to dig up

604
00:30:03,500 --> 00:30:05,166
mud and sling mud.

605
00:30:05,166 --> 00:30:06,967
It's not gonna do
anything but hurt Jessie

606
00:30:06,967 --> 00:30:09,100
and his chances
of receiving a fair trial.

607
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:12,667
You as-- as friends
of Jessie and relatives
of Jessie,

608
00:30:12,667 --> 00:30:15,400
are prime targets
for these members
of the press,

609
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,767
and if we just remember
the one rule is,

610
00:30:17,767 --> 00:30:20,133
don't talk to anybody
and then we won't have
to worry about it.

611
00:30:20,133 --> 00:30:22,066
Does that make sense?

612
00:30:22,066 --> 00:30:24,900
So, again I caution you
not to talk to anybody

613
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,734
in the press,
'cause it's just
gonna hurt us. Thanks.

614
00:30:27,734 --> 00:30:28,734
♪ Grace ♪

615
00:30:28,734 --> 00:30:31,133
♪ For my will ♪

616
00:30:31,133 --> 00:30:33,300
♪ To break ♪

617
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:35,033
♪ That's what ♪

618
00:30:35,033 --> 00:30:37,367
♪ I'll be willing ♪

619
00:30:37,367 --> 00:30:40,500
♪ To do ♪

620
00:30:42,166 --> 00:30:43,967
♪ That's what ♪

621
00:30:43,967 --> 00:30:46,300
♪ I'll be willing ♪

622
00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:49,166
♪ To do. ♪

623
00:30:51,433 --> 00:30:52,633
Man:
Amen.

624
00:30:55,433 --> 00:30:57,367
John:
Eat it up.

625
00:31:05,233 --> 00:31:06,433
You know, one thing I like

626
00:31:06,433 --> 00:31:10,133
about this right here
black powder gun...

627
00:31:10,133 --> 00:31:12,700
is they can't pull any type
of ballistics on it.

628
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:16,033
If by some chance you was
to shoot something with it,

629
00:31:16,033 --> 00:31:17,900
every bullet rifles
through the chamber

630
00:31:17,900 --> 00:31:19,934
just a little bit different.

631
00:31:21,467 --> 00:31:25,567
So, they just can't pull
no ballistics off this.

632
00:31:25,567 --> 00:31:29,233
There's a few people
I wouldn't mind going on
shooting with it, but...

633
00:31:29,233 --> 00:31:33,567
hopefully the courts
and the justice system
take care of them, but...

634
00:31:33,567 --> 00:31:36,133
they reach prison,
they gonna get took care of.

635
00:31:37,767 --> 00:31:40,500
I told Todd I could save
the state a lot of money.

636
00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:43,867
If they'd just let me line
them three son of a guns up.

637
00:31:43,867 --> 00:31:45,667
I'd say,
"This one here's
for you, Jessie."

638
00:31:45,667 --> 00:31:47,567
We gonna go
for the jug of water.

639
00:31:47,567 --> 00:31:48,734
( gunshot )

640
00:31:48,734 --> 00:31:50,367
Oh, Jessie, I done blowed

641
00:31:50,367 --> 00:31:52,233
- you half in two, son.
- ( Todd chuckles )

642
00:31:52,233 --> 00:31:54,533
( gun clicking )

643
00:31:54,533 --> 00:31:56,133
Now this one here's
for you, Damien.

644
00:31:56,133 --> 00:31:57,934
You that black circle
right in the middle.

645
00:31:57,934 --> 00:31:59,333
( gunshot )

646
00:31:59,333 --> 00:32:01,533
- Oh, you've got hurt.
- ( Todd chuckles )

647
00:32:01,533 --> 00:32:03,633
Damn. That sure
looked painful, didn't it?

648
00:32:03,633 --> 00:32:05,734
Yeah, hey, Jason?

649
00:32:05,734 --> 00:32:08,667
I want you to smile
and blow me a kiss
for this one.

650
00:32:10,333 --> 00:32:12,233
Now let's go
back to Jessie.

651
00:32:12,233 --> 00:32:13,667
I just wounded him,

652
00:32:13,667 --> 00:32:16,967
I want him to bleed a little bit
like he made my baby bleed.

653
00:32:16,967 --> 00:32:19,533
Oh, Jessie.

654
00:32:19,533 --> 00:32:23,200
You know, that breaks my heart
thinking about that scum.

655
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:25,233
'Cause this right here's
all that needs to be done
to him,

656
00:32:25,233 --> 00:32:26,367
just shot slowly.

657
00:32:27,633 --> 00:32:30,433
With a real nice firearm,

658
00:32:30,433 --> 00:32:32,133
and it ain't got
no consideration

659
00:32:32,133 --> 00:32:33,734
or no feeling
of who it's aiming at,

660
00:32:33,734 --> 00:32:36,633
just like they didn't care
about killing my baby.

661
00:32:38,934 --> 00:32:41,367
I'd be happy
lining them up.

662
00:32:41,367 --> 00:32:44,100
I wouldn't have had
no problem with it.

663
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,734
I think old Jessie's
still kicking a little.

664
00:32:48,734 --> 00:32:51,433
Y'all go ahead
and put him out
of his misery.

665
00:32:51,433 --> 00:32:53,967
What kind of--
what kind of range
we got in the courtroom?

666
00:32:53,967 --> 00:32:57,433
Ah, probably about
10-foot right here.

667
00:32:57,433 --> 00:32:59,700
Go ahead and waste
old Jessie.

668
00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:01,633
I don't see that
to being much
of a problem.

669
00:33:01,633 --> 00:33:03,633
No.

670
00:33:03,633 --> 00:33:06,200
'Cause I can
just see the scum.

671
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,700
That's good.

672
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:08,900
Go ahead,
he's wiggling.

673
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:12,533
All right.
Oh, I could live with that.

674
00:33:12,533 --> 00:33:14,734
( gunshots )

675
00:33:16,734 --> 00:33:18,133
( thuds )

676
00:33:18,133 --> 00:33:22,533
Fogelman : During the course
of these conversations,

677
00:33:22,533 --> 00:33:25,133
was anything shown
to the defendant?

678
00:33:25,133 --> 00:33:27,567
- Yes, sir.
- All right, and what
was shown to him?

679
00:33:27,567 --> 00:33:30,333
Okay, there was a picture
that Inspector Gitchell
showed him.

680
00:33:30,333 --> 00:33:33,266
Okay. And what was
that picture of?

681
00:33:33,266 --> 00:33:36,333
One of the victims.

682
00:33:36,333 --> 00:33:38,700
When I showed Jessie
this photograph,

683
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:41,166
he-- he took it into his hand,
and he just--

684
00:33:41,166 --> 00:33:43,567
he just went back
in his chair like this.

685
00:33:43,567 --> 00:33:45,633
And-- and he just
locked in on it,

686
00:33:45,633 --> 00:33:47,000
fixed in
on the photograph

687
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,500
and just kept
staring at it
and staring at it.

688
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:53,633
Initially, Mr. Misskelley
denied any involvement

689
00:33:53,633 --> 00:33:56,467
- whatsoever in this,
didn't he?
- Yes, sir, he did.

690
00:33:56,467 --> 00:33:59,700
Officer Ridge,
the photograph that was

691
00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:01,166
just introduced into evidence

692
00:34:01,166 --> 00:34:04,066
depicting one
of the boys' bodies,

693
00:34:04,066 --> 00:34:06,200
- that was shown to Jessie?
- Yes, sir.

694
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,300
And this was
immediately prior
to him admitting

695
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:11,200
and telling you
this story about
being present

696
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,066
when the boys
were killed?

697
00:34:13,066 --> 00:34:14,533
Shortly before, yes, sir.

698
00:34:14,533 --> 00:34:17,066
Why did you guys do that?

699
00:34:17,066 --> 00:34:19,700
There had to be
a reason to do that.

700
00:34:19,700 --> 00:34:22,667
There are times
when Jessie would not
be talking,

701
00:34:22,667 --> 00:34:25,200
he's-- he's getting slower
with information, he's--

702
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,266
he's telling us
things that are just--

703
00:34:27,266 --> 00:34:29,233
it's over and over
the same thing.

704
00:34:29,233 --> 00:34:32,467
Those techniques are used
to evoke a response.

705
00:34:34,834 --> 00:34:36,867
You and Inspector Gitchell
did these things

706
00:34:36,867 --> 00:34:38,633
to invoke a response.

707
00:34:38,633 --> 00:34:41,233
- Yes, sir.
-  Invoke a confession.

708
00:34:41,233 --> 00:34:43,667
Invoke a response
to keep him talking.

709
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,533
Did it ever
occur to you

710
00:34:46,533 --> 00:34:49,567
that Mr. Misskelley
has a mental handicap?

711
00:34:49,567 --> 00:34:51,500
No, sir, it didn't to me
on that day.

712
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,266
Do you have any
special training

713
00:34:53,266 --> 00:34:55,967
- dealing with people
with mental handicaps?
- No, sir.

714
00:34:55,967 --> 00:34:57,767
Did it ever occur
to you that--

715
00:34:57,767 --> 00:34:59,233
that this was
gonna scare him,

716
00:34:59,233 --> 00:35:02,066
showing a picture
of a body?

717
00:35:02,066 --> 00:35:05,500
( sighs )
That it would scare him?

718
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:07,333
I don't know,
I-- I guess he's scared

719
00:35:07,333 --> 00:35:10,633
into making a statement,
yes, sir.

720
00:35:10,633 --> 00:35:13,367
Misskelley:
I-- I'm getting
nervous every day.

721
00:35:13,367 --> 00:35:15,033
- Why?
- Why?

722
00:35:15,033 --> 00:35:17,166
- Oh.
- Why?

723
00:35:17,166 --> 00:35:19,767
- Okay.
- That's a stupid question.

724
00:35:19,767 --> 00:35:24,033
- Okay.
- Boy, I can barely
hold this phone.

725
00:35:24,033 --> 00:35:25,500
Boy, it's--
it's getting closer

726
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:27,233
and closer and  closer.

727
00:35:27,233 --> 00:35:29,834
- I know.
- I ju-- I don't wanna even
think about it.

728
00:35:29,834 --> 00:35:33,834
I can imagine what
they gonna go to me.
I can imagine.

729
00:35:33,834 --> 00:35:35,467
But I'm not gonna think
that, though.

730
00:35:35,467 --> 00:35:37,767
Think good thoughts, okay,
while I'm on the phone.

731
00:35:37,767 --> 00:35:39,200
Huh?

732
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,633
Talk-- talk about
something good
while I'm on the phone.

733
00:35:41,633 --> 00:35:43,066
- Hey!
- Yeah?

734
00:35:43,066 --> 00:35:45,033
You're supposed
to be talking to me,
not your friends.

735
00:35:45,033 --> 00:35:47,066
Well, he's talking about
something else.

736
00:35:47,066 --> 00:35:49,600
These people
make me mad.

737
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,033
- You know it?
-  Uh-huh.

738
00:35:52,033 --> 00:35:54,834
They-- they get to go out
and screw people,
and I can't.

739
00:35:54,834 --> 00:35:57,367
Oh.
( chuckles )

740
00:35:57,367 --> 00:36:00,433
Well, y'all do.
But I can't do that.

741
00:36:00,433 --> 00:36:03,000
- Well, you will later.
- I will later?

742
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,967
- Mm-hmm.
- How do you know?

743
00:36:05,967 --> 00:36:08,900
- I mean, if I can get out
we will...
- I know that.

744
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:10,867
...but if I don't get out,
we won't.

745
00:36:10,867 --> 00:36:12,867
What I was gonna ask you,
that last-- that Sunday.

746
00:36:12,867 --> 00:36:14,667
- Uh-huh.
- That I had--

747
00:36:14,667 --> 00:36:16,600
- I dreamed about you.
- Uh-huh.

748
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,667
You won't believe
what I was dreaming.

749
00:36:18,667 --> 00:36:23,433
( stutters )
It freaked me out.
Wanna hear it? Huh?

750
00:36:23,433 --> 00:36:26,000
- Yeah.
- We was--

751
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,567
- we was having sex,
all right?
-  Okay.

752
00:36:29,567 --> 00:36:32,800
We went to--
we went to a bathroom,
we had sex.

753
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,567
We-- when I was going
somewhere going--

754
00:36:34,567 --> 00:36:36,934
going out the front door,
we had sex right there.

755
00:36:36,934 --> 00:36:40,967
We done it out in the yard,
in front of everybody,

756
00:36:40,967 --> 00:36:43,500
and it freaked me out.

757
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:46,867
I woke up, boy,
I was sweating bad.

758
00:36:46,867 --> 00:36:49,400
Man, I hope that dream
come true quick.

759
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,166
What are you gonna do
when you get off the phone?

760
00:36:52,166 --> 00:36:54,166
- Sneak back home.
- Go back home?

761
00:36:54,166 --> 00:36:57,533
- Uh-huh.
- I'm gonna go back home, too,
when I get off the phone.

762
00:36:57,533 --> 00:36:59,166
- I wish you could.
- Huh?

763
00:36:59,166 --> 00:37:02,100
- I wish you could.
- Yeah.

764
00:37:02,100 --> 00:37:04,533
- Well, my time's up, okay?
- Okay.

765
00:37:04,533 --> 00:37:05,967
- I gotta go, okay?
- Okay.

766
00:37:05,967 --> 00:37:07,300
- Love you.
- I love you, too.

767
00:37:07,300 --> 00:37:09,166
- Bye-bye.
- ( phone clicks )

768
00:37:09,166 --> 00:37:11,633
( Christmas music playing )

769
00:37:35,433 --> 00:37:36,767
Can you get it
in there all?

770
00:37:36,767 --> 00:37:37,967
Yeah.

771
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:40,800
( clicks )

772
00:37:42,567 --> 00:37:44,200
( sniffling )

773
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:52,734
( clicks )

774
00:38:03,934 --> 00:38:05,967
I think those two
oughta do fine.

775
00:38:05,967 --> 00:38:07,800
Yeah, I'm sure
they will, babe.

776
00:38:09,734 --> 00:38:12,667
Yeah, this one's good,
this one came out.

777
00:38:12,667 --> 00:38:13,934
Okay.

778
00:38:15,633 --> 00:38:17,200
( sighs )

779
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,000
John:
Big difference
from any other Christmas.

780
00:38:22,166 --> 00:38:25,200
Be one we'll never forget.

781
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:26,433
Byers:
Yeah, I know,

782
00:38:26,433 --> 00:38:28,734
it's the first one
without him.

783
00:38:32,266 --> 00:38:34,233
( sighs )

784
00:38:40,033 --> 00:38:43,367
Wish you could've been here
to hear me sing lately.

785
00:38:43,367 --> 00:38:45,500
He liked
to hear me sing.

786
00:38:47,533 --> 00:38:48,600
( sniffles )

787
00:38:56,233 --> 00:38:57,967
Well, I think
his little Christmas tree,

788
00:38:57,967 --> 00:38:59,367
it'll stay there real well.

789
00:38:59,367 --> 00:39:00,734
It's in there
tight enough.

790
00:39:00,734 --> 00:39:04,200
I don't think
the wind will blow it
over or anything.

791
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,800
Come here and kneel
down here by me.

792
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,400
Oh, God, why did
you let this happen?

793
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,367
Please help us through it.

794
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,266
God, please
help us through this.

795
00:39:34,433 --> 00:39:38,300
Ridge:
This is a enlarged photograph
of the crime scene.

796
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:41,166
This is the ditch where
the bodies were found.

797
00:39:41,166 --> 00:39:44,033
Michael Moore was found
in this area right here

798
00:39:44,033 --> 00:39:45,667
at the bottom
of the screen.

799
00:39:45,667 --> 00:39:47,667
Steve Branch
was found just--

800
00:39:47,667 --> 00:39:51,133
just behind where these trees
are in the stream.

801
00:39:51,133 --> 00:39:53,934
And Christopher Byers
was found just below

802
00:39:53,934 --> 00:39:55,834
that body right here.

803
00:39:55,834 --> 00:39:58,000
This is Exhibit 22,

804
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,934
- which is the body
of Michael Moore...
- ( woman gasps )

805
00:40:00,934 --> 00:40:04,300
...after removing him
from the water,

806
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:06,500
the way he was found.

807
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,567
This is the body
of Steve Branch.

808
00:40:12,567 --> 00:40:15,266
Steve Branch is the young man
that had the--

809
00:40:15,266 --> 00:40:17,734
the injuries
to his face.

810
00:40:17,734 --> 00:40:19,834
Fogelman :
Is it a particular part
of his face?

811
00:40:19,834 --> 00:40:22,934
Ridge:
On the left side
and down here.

812
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,300
State's Exhibit 24,

813
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:32,000
the body
of Christopher Byers.

814
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,200
And what kind of injuries
did Chris Byers have,

815
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,066
that you observed?

816
00:40:37,066 --> 00:40:40,734
It looked as though
his penis had been removed.

817
00:40:40,734 --> 00:40:42,867
( crying )

818
00:40:48,233 --> 00:40:50,400
( cameras snapping )

819
00:40:55,633 --> 00:40:58,200
Could you see the pictures
from where you were sitting?

820
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:59,834
Yeah, that's why
I had to leave.

821
00:40:59,834 --> 00:41:02,200
- Why?
- Because al--

822
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,200
always along with
seeing my little boy
the way he was,

823
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,433
I'll always have
that picture of what

824
00:41:08,433 --> 00:41:11,567
he looked like...
in my mind.

825
00:41:11,567 --> 00:41:14,200
But you never
knew until now.

826
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,567
You were worried
early on that, that--

827
00:41:16,567 --> 00:41:18,567
and you said
early on, that you really
didn't wanna know,

828
00:41:18,567 --> 00:41:20,100
but now
you're hearing it.

829
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:21,967
Is it a lot harder
than what you thought

830
00:41:21,967 --> 00:41:23,633
it was going to be,
to hear this?

831
00:41:23,633 --> 00:41:28,100
It's a whole lot harder
than I thought it would be.

832
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:29,934
It's like going back
to May 5th

833
00:41:29,934 --> 00:41:32,133
and reliving it
all over again.

834
00:41:37,633 --> 00:41:38,800
( tape recorder clicks )

835
00:43:03,967 --> 00:43:05,166
Stidham:
Inspector Gitchell,

836
00:43:05,166 --> 00:43:06,600
let's talk about
the things that--

837
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:07,800
that Jessie told you

838
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,767
that are just
absolutely incorrect.

839
00:43:09,767 --> 00:43:12,166
Now, on page nine
of his statement,

840
00:43:12,166 --> 00:43:13,734
Inspector Gitchell,
Jessie says

841
00:43:13,734 --> 00:43:16,333
that the murders
took place around noon.

842
00:43:16,333 --> 00:43:18,100
How did you know
that was incorrect?

843
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:21,900
Because the boys were--
the young boys were
still in school.

844
00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:24,300
Did at any time
when he was telling you

845
00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:26,500
these things that
you knew were incorrect,

846
00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:29,867
did it ever occur
to you that what he was
telling you was false?

847
00:43:29,867 --> 00:43:32,000
His entire story was false?

848
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,367
In Jessie's case,
I feel like he did tell us
a good bit of the truth,

849
00:43:36,367 --> 00:43:39,900
but then they also lessen
their activity in a statement.

850
00:43:39,900 --> 00:43:42,333
That's just common.

851
00:43:42,333 --> 00:43:43,900
At least
in my 20 years' career--

852
00:43:43,900 --> 00:43:45,467
Is it common for the police

853
00:43:45,467 --> 00:43:48,066
to simply ignore
these big obvious problems

854
00:43:48,066 --> 00:43:51,200
and just assume that if
everything else that
he's telling you

855
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,467
has gotta be correct?

856
00:43:52,467 --> 00:43:55,066
Jessie simply got confused.

857
00:43:58,033 --> 00:44:00,400
Stidham:
You and I can
tell the cops

858
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,000
that we know what
our rights are and, uh,
basically go to hell.

859
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,266
We're not gonna sit here
and take this and walk out.

860
00:44:06,266 --> 00:44:09,867
Jessie Misskelley has
no concept of being able
to leave a police station.

861
00:44:09,867 --> 00:44:12,333
I mean, the only thing that
the prosecution has--

862
00:44:12,333 --> 00:44:14,567
has put on against
Jessie is this

863
00:44:14,567 --> 00:44:16,834
wild story
that he told the police.

864
00:44:16,834 --> 00:44:19,567
And I hope that
the fact that there's
no physical evidence

865
00:44:19,567 --> 00:44:21,700
linking him
to the crime scene
is-- is gonna have

866
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:23,567
a lot of impact
on the jury.

867
00:44:23,567 --> 00:44:25,834
And we're talking about
reasonable doubt, uh--

868
00:44:25,834 --> 00:44:28,600
But-- but I think you need
to deal with the lack
of physical evidence.

869
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,200
Not just-- not-- not
to just let them get away

870
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,767
with the fact
that they were in the water
and it all washed away.

871
00:44:33,767 --> 00:44:35,600
A crime scene that clean

872
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,533
has to be
purposefully planned--
done that way, okay?

873
00:44:39,533 --> 00:44:41,533
( stutters ) The fact
that it looked washed down

874
00:44:41,533 --> 00:44:42,900
was not just happenstance.

875
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:45,000
- Right, okay.
- Okay? ( stuttering )

876
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,934
That is probably something
like you said we can, maybe--

877
00:44:46,934 --> 00:44:52,600
( stutters )
Somebody intentionally,
purposefully...

878
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,867
with great cunning
and intelligence...

879
00:44:55,867 --> 00:44:59,834
tried to get a--
get rid of...

880
00:44:59,834 --> 00:45:04,433
every spot of blood,
semen, mud, footprint--

881
00:45:04,433 --> 00:45:06,467
anything that may
have been there,

882
00:45:06,467 --> 00:45:08,433
they purposefully tried
to get rid of all that.

883
00:45:08,433 --> 00:45:11,800
An 18, a 17,
and a 16-year-old kid

884
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,200
don't pull
this off, no.

885
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,133
Lot of-- I think
there's a lot of

886
00:45:16,133 --> 00:45:18,166
professional killers who
don't leave it this clean,
you know?

887
00:45:18,166 --> 00:45:19,734
I really do believe

888
00:45:19,734 --> 00:45:21,700
that if
the jury hears

889
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:23,433
what lust
serial killers are like,

890
00:45:23,433 --> 00:45:25,734
and what they do,
and how they leave
crime scenes--

891
00:45:25,734 --> 00:45:27,867
with the missing evidence,
the souvenirs.

892
00:45:27,867 --> 00:45:29,633
I have no doubt where
there's a serial killer

893
00:45:29,633 --> 00:45:31,400
running around that--
that did these murders.

894
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,734
I have no doubt, hell,
he may be in Idaho
now but, I mean,

895
00:45:33,734 --> 00:45:36,133
I'm-- I don't have
any doubt about it,
you know?

896
00:45:36,133 --> 00:45:39,066
You know, it is somebody
who knew what they were doing,
had done it before,

897
00:45:39,066 --> 00:45:40,467
and probably has done it
since then or--

898
00:45:40,467 --> 00:45:43,500
or will definitely
do it again.

899
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:46,567
Are you aware
of any personality traits

900
00:45:46,567 --> 00:45:49,200
of people who are likely
to possibly confess?

901
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:50,633
Low IQ.

902
00:45:52,266 --> 00:45:53,767
Highly suggestible.

903
00:45:53,767 --> 00:45:58,834
Always attempting to solve
the immediate stress factor.

904
00:45:58,834 --> 00:46:02,033
Get the interrogators
off my back

905
00:46:02,033 --> 00:46:04,700
and just
let me go home.

906
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:08,467
Naively assumes that
they can all straighten it
out later on.

907
00:46:08,467 --> 00:46:11,066
It's extremely difficult

908
00:46:11,066 --> 00:46:14,633
for the average person
to believe...

909
00:46:14,633 --> 00:46:17,133
that someone would confess
to a crime they didn't do.

910
00:46:17,133 --> 00:46:19,133
And what I didn't like
about this confession

911
00:46:19,133 --> 00:46:21,066
is that
most of it emanated from

912
00:46:21,066 --> 00:46:23,166
questions right off the bat,

913
00:46:23,166 --> 00:46:27,333
without-- without
any narrative of any--
any length at all.

914
00:46:27,333 --> 00:46:30,200
Without any descriptions
about feelings,

915
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:31,633
or conversations or anything.

916
00:46:32,934 --> 00:46:34,934
I-- I just don't understand

917
00:46:34,934 --> 00:46:36,800
if he was in fact
involved in this crime,

918
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,300
how he made a mistake
on the time factor.

919
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:42,633
And the thing that really
bothers me is the ligature--

920
00:46:42,633 --> 00:46:45,000
what was used
to tie up the-- the victims.

921
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,834
Now, he certainly knows
the difference between, uh,

922
00:46:48,834 --> 00:46:50,433
shoelaces and a rope.

923
00:46:50,433 --> 00:46:52,367
That should have been a--

924
00:46:52,367 --> 00:46:54,533
a signal that something
was radically wrong.

925
00:46:54,533 --> 00:46:57,300
That's when the questions
should have been more probing

926
00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:59,734
to determine whether or not
he was making it up

927
00:46:59,734 --> 00:47:01,567
or giving
a valid confession.

928
00:47:01,567 --> 00:47:06,000
Fogelman :
Out of the hundred or more
people that y'all talked to,

929
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,233
are you aware of anybody
other than the defendant
who told you

930
00:47:11,233 --> 00:47:13,467
one of the victims

931
00:47:13,467 --> 00:47:15,767
that had
their genitals removed,

932
00:47:15,767 --> 00:47:18,600
and one of them had cuts
to the side of the face,

933
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:21,066
and there'd been some
grabbing of the ears?

934
00:47:21,066 --> 00:47:23,333
Uh, there was
no one else

935
00:47:23,333 --> 00:47:25,867
that mentioned
those particular injuries,

936
00:47:25,867 --> 00:47:27,967
and you yourself,
Mr. Fogelman,

937
00:47:27,967 --> 00:47:29,767
you're pointing
to the wrong side
of the cheek.

938
00:47:29,767 --> 00:47:31,867
- Oh.
- ( all laughing )

939
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:35,066
Was there any kind
of emotional response?

940
00:47:35,066 --> 00:47:37,266
He had tears
coming down his eyes.

941
00:47:37,266 --> 00:47:39,900
Right. Had y'all
yelled at him,

942
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:41,700
or been mean
to him or...

943
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:43,066
- No, sir.
- ...threatened him,

944
00:47:43,066 --> 00:47:44,467
or promised him anything?

945
00:47:44,467 --> 00:47:45,467
Done any of those things?

946
00:47:45,467 --> 00:47:46,900
None of those things
happened whatsoever.

947
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:47,967
All right.

948
00:47:47,967 --> 00:47:50,200
( squawking )

949
00:47:57,934 --> 00:48:01,200
( signal crossing honking,
clanging )

950
00:48:11,233 --> 00:48:13,500
Dr. Ofshe,
could you give us
some examples of--

951
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:15,400
of the police being coercive,

952
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,066
leading or suggestive
during the course

953
00:48:17,066 --> 00:48:18,867
- of the interrogation?
- Ofshe: Yes, I can.

954
00:48:18,867 --> 00:48:22,667
Perhaps the most
powerful example,

955
00:48:22,667 --> 00:48:24,967
in my opinion,

956
00:48:24,967 --> 00:48:28,700
is the example
of the eight revisiting

957
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:33,266
of the question
of the time at which
the killings occurred.

958
00:48:33,266 --> 00:48:36,800
The first example
occurs on page three.

959
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,500
Detective Ridge says,
"All right, when did you
go with them?"

960
00:48:40,500 --> 00:48:42,467
Mr. Misskelley says,
"That morning."

961
00:48:42,467 --> 00:48:44,433
Detective Ridge asks,

962
00:48:44,433 --> 00:48:46,200
"I'm not saying
when they called you,

963
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,433
I'm saying what time
was it that you were

964
00:48:48,433 --> 00:48:52,066
actually there
in the park."

965
00:48:52,066 --> 00:48:54,567
Mr. Misskelley says,
"About noon."

966
00:48:54,567 --> 00:48:56,433
Detective Ridge now says,

967
00:48:56,433 --> 00:48:59,600
"Okay, was it after school
had let out?"

968
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,967
This is immediately after
Jessie saying it's at noon.

969
00:49:03,967 --> 00:49:05,834
He's now suggesting
it must be later

970
00:49:05,834 --> 00:49:09,367
by saying is it
after school let out.

971
00:49:09,367 --> 00:49:11,133
Jessie says, "Yes."

972
00:49:11,133 --> 00:49:13,967
Detective Ridge follows up

973
00:49:13,967 --> 00:49:18,767
with his victory
on page 24.

974
00:49:18,767 --> 00:49:22,700
And this time
Detective Ridge says,
and I quote,

975
00:49:22,700 --> 00:49:27,533
"Okay, the night
you were in the woods,

976
00:49:27,533 --> 00:49:30,500
had you all been
in the water?"

977
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:34,367
Jessie replies,
"Yeah, we've been
in the water.

978
00:49:34,367 --> 00:49:38,900
We were in it
that night playing
around in it."

979
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:41,734
This is the first time
in the record

980
00:49:41,734 --> 00:49:45,767
that it is directly
suggested to Jessie

981
00:49:45,767 --> 00:49:49,033
that the correct answer
is this happened at night.

982
00:49:49,033 --> 00:49:53,367
Immediately upon
that being suggested,

983
00:49:53,367 --> 00:49:58,967
Jessie is--
responds by accepting,

984
00:49:58,967 --> 00:50:02,400
and now he starts
to use the word at night,

985
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,333
where he had
never used it before.

986
00:50:04,333 --> 00:50:06,800
That is
an influence tactic.

987
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,133
It is a way
of getting someone
to accept something

988
00:50:11,133 --> 00:50:13,700
out of pressure
and out of suggestion.

989
00:50:13,700 --> 00:50:15,600
But that's one example.

990
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,667
There are
many other examples

991
00:50:17,667 --> 00:50:22,100
of manipulation
on important points
throughout this record.

992
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,500
Brent Davis:
Mr. Ofshe,

993
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:36,400
is your going rate
approximately $300 an hour?

994
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,500
- No, that's not.
- What is it?

995
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:42,300
My rate is $150 an hour
for consultation,

996
00:50:42,300 --> 00:50:44,300
and $300 an hour
for time spent

997
00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:46,100
in court
or in deposition.

998
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:49,567
So, if you're
initially asked
to evaluate a case,

999
00:50:49,567 --> 00:50:52,600
you don't get
the-- the $300 an hour

1000
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,767
unless you
give an opinion
that's consistent

1001
00:50:54,767 --> 00:50:56,900
with what the person
asked you wants to hear.

1002
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:58,266
If they don't call
you as a witness,

1003
00:50:58,266 --> 00:51:00,633
you don't get
your $300 an hour, correct?

1004
00:51:00,633 --> 00:51:01,967
Incorrect.

1005
00:51:03,266 --> 00:51:04,900
I don't know what

1006
00:51:04,900 --> 00:51:07,600
the terminology
is in Berkeley, California,

1007
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:12,433
but when the defendant
identified who it was

1008
00:51:12,433 --> 00:51:14,967
who was castrated,
when he indicated

1009
00:51:14,967 --> 00:51:18,400
that one of the boys
was cut in the face,
you don't know,

1010
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:19,967
and you can't
give an opinion

1011
00:51:19,967 --> 00:51:21,066
that any of those questions

1012
00:51:21,066 --> 00:51:22,900
were coercive
in nature, can you?

1013
00:51:22,900 --> 00:51:24,600
No, I can't,
because the record

1014
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,667
that we are dealing with
is very incomplete

1015
00:51:27,667 --> 00:51:31,967
because this part
of the record is preceded,

1016
00:51:31,967 --> 00:51:36,433
as everyone agrees,
by over two hours

1017
00:51:36,433 --> 00:51:41,033
of interrogation
in which many subjects
were discussed,

1018
00:51:41,033 --> 00:51:43,567
for which
we have no record.

1019
00:51:43,567 --> 00:51:47,066
( music playing )

1020
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,100
( music continues )

1021
00:52:50,433 --> 00:52:53,033
♪ Welcome to where
time stands still ♪

1022
00:52:53,033 --> 00:52:56,900
♪ No one leaves
and no one will ♪

1023
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:59,100
♪ Moon is full,
never seems to change ♪

1024
00:52:59,100 --> 00:53:00,600
♪ Just
labeled mentally... ♪

1025
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,200
( police siren )

1026
00:53:04,033 --> 00:53:06,567
( radio chatter )

1027
00:53:06,567 --> 00:53:08,767
♪ ...freedom
in my sight ♪

1028
00:53:08,767 --> 00:53:11,800
♪ No locked doors,
no windows to find ♪

1029
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,600
♪ No things to make
my brain seemed scarred ♪

1030
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:18,233
♪ Sleep, my friend,
and you will see ♪

1031
00:53:18,233 --> 00:53:21,934
♪ The dream
is my reality ♪

1032
00:53:21,934 --> 00:53:24,400
♪ They keep me locked up
in this cage ♪

1033
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,767
♪ Can't they see it's why
my brain says rage? ♪

1034
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,834
♪ Sanitarium. ♪

1035
00:53:34,834 --> 00:53:36,633
Stidham:
Jessie Misskelley

1036
00:53:36,633 --> 00:53:38,266
didn't tell
the police anything

1037
00:53:38,266 --> 00:53:40,200
that they didn't
already know.

1038
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,100
They led him through
this entire taped statement,

1039
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:45,834
and ladies and gentlemen
of the jury,

1040
00:53:45,834 --> 00:53:47,400
we don't know
what happened

1041
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:49,767
before they turned
the tape recorder on.

1042
00:53:49,767 --> 00:53:51,533
They didn't videotape it.

1043
00:53:51,533 --> 00:53:54,367
The officers didn't take notes
on all the questions,

1044
00:53:54,367 --> 00:53:56,166
they testified to that.

1045
00:53:56,166 --> 00:53:59,633
They even testified
they couldn't remember some
of the things they asked him.

1046
00:53:59,633 --> 00:54:03,433
How do we know
what really happened?

1047
00:54:03,433 --> 00:54:06,567
The defense,
through bringing in
so-called experts

1048
00:54:06,567 --> 00:54:08,533
such as Mr. Ofshe,

1049
00:54:08,533 --> 00:54:10,500
have tried through
smoke and mirrors

1050
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:12,266
to make it sound like

1051
00:54:12,266 --> 00:54:15,700
a person that confesses
to such a heinous crime

1052
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:17,333
and admits
their involvement

1053
00:54:17,333 --> 00:54:20,066
and gives you specific details
in the involvement,

1054
00:54:20,066 --> 00:54:23,066
that's indicative
of someone who was forced

1055
00:54:23,066 --> 00:54:25,266
or coerced to confess.

1056
00:54:25,266 --> 00:54:27,100
Ladies and gentlemen
of the jury,

1057
00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:29,934
my client,
little Jessie Misskelley,

1058
00:54:29,934 --> 00:54:32,767
is an innocent man.

1059
00:54:32,767 --> 00:54:34,767
He's innocent.

1060
00:54:34,767 --> 00:54:37,266
And I would ask you
to go back to that jury room

1061
00:54:37,266 --> 00:54:40,166
and bring back a verdict
that rings of justice.

1062
00:54:40,166 --> 00:54:43,133
Truth and justice.

1063
00:54:43,133 --> 00:54:44,900
And I would ask you
to bring back a verdict

1064
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:48,900
that you can live with
for the rest of your life.

1065
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:50,900
Davis:
See this picture?
This is--

1066
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:53,433
this is
the Moore boy.

1067
00:54:53,433 --> 00:54:55,533
This defendant
won't look up,

1068
00:54:55,533 --> 00:54:56,467
he won't look at you.

1069
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:00,767
But this
defendant's actions,

1070
00:55:00,767 --> 00:55:02,967
and you just
think about it.

1071
00:55:02,967 --> 00:55:06,800
If this defendant
does not chase down
Michael Moore...

1072
00:55:08,467 --> 00:55:10,533
if he does not
run through the woods,

1073
00:55:10,533 --> 00:55:13,133
and chase him down,
and bring him back...

1074
00:55:13,133 --> 00:55:15,867
Michael Moore lives.

1075
00:55:15,867 --> 00:55:17,934
Michael Moore
gets to go home at night,

1076
00:55:17,934 --> 00:55:20,500
his parents get
to be with him.

1077
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:24,367
But because of this
defendant's actions,

1078
00:55:24,367 --> 00:55:27,000
because of what
Jessie Misskelley. Jr. did,

1079
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,266
Michael Moore's dead,

1080
00:55:29,266 --> 00:55:31,166
Stevie Branch is dead,

1081
00:55:31,166 --> 00:55:33,233
Chris Byers is dead,

1082
00:55:33,233 --> 00:55:35,266
and there's no
getting around it.

1083
00:55:35,266 --> 00:55:36,700
I think when
you go back,

1084
00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:38,333
and you apply
your common sense,

1085
00:55:38,333 --> 00:55:39,667
and you do
what's right,

1086
00:55:39,667 --> 00:55:41,867
and you think about
the evidence in this case,

1087
00:55:41,867 --> 00:55:47,667
you're gonna know
that what the evidence shows
is that this defendant

1088
00:55:47,667 --> 00:55:49,834
ran down
Michael Moore.

1089
00:55:49,834 --> 00:55:51,667
That this defendant
was there.

1090
00:55:51,667 --> 00:55:54,266
He was involved,
and he's guilty

1091
00:55:54,266 --> 00:55:57,000
of three counts
of capital murder.

1092
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,100
Three, two, one.

1093
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:02,433
The jury went out
at 4:20 this afternoon.

1094
00:56:02,433 --> 00:56:04,467
They'll decide
if Jessie Misskelley is guilty

1095
00:56:04,467 --> 00:56:06,033
in the deaths
of Christopher Byers,

1096
00:56:06,033 --> 00:56:07,734
Michael Moore,
and Steven Branch.

1097
00:56:07,734 --> 00:56:10,300
Misskelley is charged
with capital murder,

1098
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:13,166
and if guilty, could get
the death penalty.

1099
00:56:13,166 --> 00:56:15,834
Two other teenagers
charged in the crime

1100
00:56:15,834 --> 00:56:18,834
will be tried later
this month in Jonesboro.

1101
00:56:18,834 --> 00:56:22,367
In Corning,
Wade Hoffman, ARN News.

1102
00:56:22,367 --> 00:56:23,633
Short, but sweet.

1103
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,300
Shelby:
I'm gonna go
get you something

1104
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:29,834
to twitch your nose,
and make them come back

1105
00:56:29,834 --> 00:56:31,333
with a not-guilty verdict,
can't you?

1106
00:56:31,333 --> 00:56:33,133
If I could twitch my nose
and do that,

1107
00:56:33,133 --> 00:56:35,934
- I'd have been gone
a long time ago.
- We've been praying to God.

1108
00:56:35,934 --> 00:56:37,133
Just bow your head.

1109
00:56:37,133 --> 00:56:39,867
- There's still hope.
- That's right.

1110
00:56:39,867 --> 00:56:41,266
Misskelley:
I'm not giving up, though.

1111
00:56:41,266 --> 00:56:43,767
All:
No, no, no, no, no.

1112
00:56:43,767 --> 00:56:45,166
Don't ever.
Don't give up--

1113
00:56:45,166 --> 00:56:47,066
and don't get in there
and get mad and go off.

1114
00:56:47,066 --> 00:56:49,166
There's always hope.

1115
00:56:49,166 --> 00:56:53,500
They tell me,
"How come he always
keeps his head down?"

1116
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:55,166
Because I was told
to keep my head down.

1117
00:56:55,166 --> 00:56:56,600
- That's right.
- That's right.

1118
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,400
Shelby:
If you'd raised up
and looked around,

1119
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,433
then they would be saying
something else,

1120
00:57:00,433 --> 00:57:02,467
- so it really don't matter.
- Don't let it bother you.

1121
00:57:02,467 --> 00:57:04,000
- They're gonna--
they're gonna--
- ( coughs )

1122
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,066
That's like
they're saying about Damien.

1123
00:57:06,066 --> 00:57:09,400
- On which station?
- They making remarks--

1124
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,767
- Damien's a good kid.
- That's what it was--

1125
00:57:11,767 --> 00:57:14,700
- I guess, I don't know--
- Shelby: I don't know Damien.

1126
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:18,133
I didn't realize how much
I loved him until this.

1127
00:57:18,133 --> 00:57:21,400
- I always loved him,
but this is just--
- Well, thanks a lot!

1128
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,400
I mean, no,
I always loved you,

1129
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,100
I'm just saying
I didn't realize how much.

1130
00:57:26,100 --> 00:57:27,834
You're coming home.

1131
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,066
Gotta get out of here.

1132
00:57:31,066 --> 00:57:34,934
Just say a prayer
when the jury comes out.
You're fine.

1133
00:57:34,934 --> 00:57:36,867
Oh, I will.
I'll say one right now.

1134
00:57:36,867 --> 00:57:41,100
'Cause we'll be sitting there
saying one for you.

1135
00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:42,667
Hopefully
I'm going home tonight.

1136
00:57:42,667 --> 00:57:46,233
We sure hope so.
We hope we can carry you home.

1137
00:57:46,233 --> 00:57:48,333
( chatter )

1138
00:58:00,166 --> 00:58:02,700
It's getting
kind of hard with you guys--

1139
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:04,600
( both chattering )

1140
00:58:07,633 --> 00:58:10,400
- ( mumbles )
- But you got it?
You wanted the controller.

1141
00:58:14,367 --> 00:58:16,600
Burnett:
All right, ladies
and gentlemen, I-- I--

1142
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,133
in the audience,
I am acutely aware

1143
00:58:20,133 --> 00:58:25,867
that your feelings
are on edge,

1144
00:58:25,867 --> 00:58:29,500
that there's a great deal
of emotion involved,

1145
00:58:29,500 --> 00:58:31,767
but the court
cannot tolerate,

1146
00:58:31,767 --> 00:58:34,200
and will not tolerate
any verbal outburst,

1147
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:38,033
any display
of emotion whatsoever.

1148
00:58:38,033 --> 00:58:40,233
And I-- I recognize that
that's difficult,

1149
00:58:40,233 --> 00:58:43,900
and that's why
I'm warning you in advance.

1150
00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:46,900
The verdicts
read as follows.

1151
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:49,800
"We the jury find
Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

1152
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:51,266
guilty of first-degree murder

1153
00:58:51,266 --> 00:58:53,300
in the death
of Michael Moore.

1154
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:56,266
We the jury find
Jesse Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

1155
00:58:56,266 --> 00:58:57,900
guilty
of second-degree murder

1156
00:58:57,900 --> 00:58:59,567
in the death
of Stevie Branch.

1157
00:58:59,567 --> 00:59:02,166
We the jury find
Jessie Lloyd Misskelley, Jr.

1158
00:59:02,166 --> 00:59:03,700
guilty
of second-degree murder

1159
00:59:03,700 --> 00:59:05,233
in the death of Chris Byers.

1160
00:59:05,233 --> 00:59:07,967
Signed by
T.J. Williams, foreman.

1161
00:59:07,967 --> 00:59:10,834
All right, Mr. Misskelley,
if you could

1162
00:59:10,834 --> 00:59:14,200
come around
to the front here,
and Dan, and...

1163
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,467
All right,
Mr. Misskelley,
did you hear the--

1164
00:59:16,467 --> 00:59:18,467
the jury's finding,
and the reading

1165
00:59:18,467 --> 00:59:19,767
of the verdict
in your case?

1166
00:59:19,767 --> 00:59:20,900
Misskelley:
Yes, sir.

1167
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:23,200
Do you have
any legal reason

1168
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,066
or cause
to tell the court

1169
00:59:25,066 --> 00:59:27,800
why sentence should not
be imposed at this time?

1170
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:29,300
( mumbles )

1171
00:59:29,300 --> 00:59:30,533
You'll have to an--
I heard you,

1172
00:59:30,533 --> 00:59:32,333
but you need to answer out
a little bit louder.

1173
00:59:32,333 --> 00:59:34,367
- No, sir.
- All right.

1174
00:59:34,367 --> 00:59:37,200
Um, is there
anything you wanna say

1175
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,066
before sentence is imposed?

1176
00:59:39,066 --> 00:59:41,233
You have a right
to-- to make any statement

1177
00:59:41,233 --> 00:59:42,400
that you care to
at this time.

1178
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,633
No, sir.

1179
00:59:43,633 --> 00:59:46,100
Are you satisfied with
the service and advice

1180
00:59:46,100 --> 00:59:47,767
of your attorneys
through this trial?

1181
00:59:47,767 --> 00:59:49,200
- Yes, sir.
- All right.

1182
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,233
All right, based upon
the jury's verdict

1183
00:59:51,233 --> 00:59:53,500
finding you guilty
of first-degree murder

1184
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:55,567
in the death
of Michael Moore,
you'll be sentenced

1185
00:59:55,567 --> 00:59:57,400
to the Arkansas Department
of Corrections

1186
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,033
for a term of life.

1187
00:59:59,033 --> 01:00:02,734
In the count
involving the death
of Steven Branch,

1188
01:00:02,734 --> 01:00:05,300
the jury having
found you guilty
of second-degree murder,

1189
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:08,700
you'll be sentenced
to an additional term
of 20 years.

1190
01:00:08,700 --> 01:00:12,166
And in regard to the death
of Christopher Byers,

1191
01:00:12,166 --> 01:00:15,200
the jury having
found you guilty
of second-degree murder,

1192
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,133
you'll be sentenced
to an additional term

1193
01:00:17,133 --> 01:00:20,000
of 20 years
in the Arkansas Department
of Corrections.

1194
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,166
That is
you will receive

1195
01:00:21,166 --> 01:00:24,367
a life sentence
plus 40 years.

1196
01:00:24,367 --> 01:00:27,433
It's hard
to think of if how...

1197
01:00:27,433 --> 01:00:28,934
it would have gone
any other way

1198
01:00:28,934 --> 01:00:31,066
but you never
can tell with
a jury of 12,

1199
01:00:31,066 --> 01:00:33,133
and they could have
found a verdict
of not guilty,

1200
01:00:33,133 --> 01:00:35,767
and, uh, we had to sit there
and tell ourselves,

1201
01:00:35,767 --> 01:00:39,734
"God, grant us the serenity
to accept the things
we cannot change,

1202
01:00:39,734 --> 01:00:41,767
the courage to change
the things we can,

1203
01:00:41,767 --> 01:00:43,800
and the wisdom
to know the difference."

1204
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,133
So, we had
to be willing to accept
what happened,

1205
01:00:46,133 --> 01:00:48,600
and thankfully
the verdict went our way.

1206
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,400
Well, listen, there must
be mixed emotions

1207
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,900
because you have
the guilty verdict,
but you--

1208
01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:56,066
you still have
the loss to deal with.

1209
01:00:56,066 --> 01:00:59,500
This doesn't
change anything.

1210
01:00:59,500 --> 01:01:01,433
-  John:  Our son was
still murdered--
-  Christopher's dead.

1211
01:01:01,433 --> 01:01:03,467
- Our son is still dead.
-  And he was tortured
to death

1212
01:01:03,467 --> 01:01:07,266
by three
murdering bastards
on a ditch bank.

1213
01:01:07,266 --> 01:01:09,467
He was
eight years old.

1214
01:01:09,467 --> 01:01:11,400
And guilty is guilty,

1215
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,967
and I hope
the little sucker,
when he hits Cummins,

1216
01:01:13,967 --> 01:01:17,233
they get his ass
right off the bat!

1217
01:01:17,233 --> 01:01:19,533
Because he deserves
to be tortured

1218
01:01:19,533 --> 01:01:22,200
and punished
for the rest of his life

1219
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:27,133
for murdering three
eight-year-old children!

1220
01:01:27,133 --> 01:01:28,934
Man:
Jessie, how come you kept

1221
01:01:28,934 --> 01:01:30,233
your head down
the whole time?

1222
01:01:30,233 --> 01:01:31,734
Woman:
Jessie, you held
your head down

1223
01:01:31,734 --> 01:01:32,900
through most of the trial.

1224
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:34,266
Anything you wanna say now?

1225
01:01:34,266 --> 01:01:35,934
Man:
Did you do it, Jessie?

1226
01:01:35,934 --> 01:01:39,100
( indistinct questions )

1227
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:41,000
Say, get that back,
get a hold of him.

1228
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:43,066
Woman
Did you do it, Jessie?

1229
01:01:47,367 --> 01:01:48,800
Woman:
Jessie, do you have
anything to say?

1230
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,333
- No.
- How are you feeling
right now?

1231
01:01:51,333 --> 01:01:53,367
Man:
Jessie, what did you say?

1232
01:01:53,367 --> 01:01:54,800
Nope.

1233
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,166
( engine starting )

1234
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:11,133
Prison's not
a safe place.

1235
01:02:11,133 --> 01:02:14,333
Jessie, sweetie.

1236
01:02:14,333 --> 01:02:16,233
I'm gonna mail him
a skirt.

1237
01:02:17,934 --> 01:02:20,133
One down,
two to go.

1238
01:02:20,133 --> 01:02:22,300
Hopefully the same thing
will happen to the next two,

1239
01:02:22,300 --> 01:02:24,633
and we'll get
the same verdict.

1240
01:02:41,567 --> 01:02:46,834
They found my son's testicles
in a jar of alcohol

1241
01:02:46,834 --> 01:02:49,834
in Damien Echols' house

1242
01:02:49,834 --> 01:02:52,800
with his fingerprints
on the jar.

1243
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,867
Now, how do you
dispute that?

1244
01:02:54,867 --> 01:02:57,300
Some idiot started
a rumor saying that

1245
01:02:57,300 --> 01:03:00,100
they found, um...

1246
01:03:02,367 --> 01:03:05,000
children's sexual parts

1247
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:09,567
under my bed
or in my house, and...

1248
01:03:09,567 --> 01:03:13,333
There was no body parts
in my house or...

1249
01:03:16,667 --> 01:03:22,133
It's just-- I think maybe
the police had something
to do with it, just...

1250
01:03:22,133 --> 01:03:25,300
'cause how-- if they can
make us look bad in front
of the public

1251
01:03:25,300 --> 01:03:28,567
then people
are gonna kind of have
their minds made up

1252
01:03:28,567 --> 01:03:30,367
before anything
ever comes out.

1253
01:03:42,934 --> 01:03:44,967
What we want to talk to you
about is all the stuff

1254
01:03:44,967 --> 01:03:48,000
in the paper
about a deal with Jessie.

1255
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,633
We-- right now
we don't know

1256
01:03:51,633 --> 01:03:53,100
what his situation is,

1257
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:56,166
although we think that
he is more inclined
to testify

1258
01:03:56,166 --> 01:04:00,500
right now than
he has been at any point
up to now.

1259
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:03,967
The Friday that
Jessie was convicted,
they questioned him.

1260
01:04:03,967 --> 01:04:05,633
The officers
who took him down

1261
01:04:05,633 --> 01:04:08,767
inquired of him
what had really happened,
and apparently Jessie,

1262
01:04:08,767 --> 01:04:11,800
contrary to somebody that
was innocent that would say
things like,

1263
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,467
"Gee, I've just been

1264
01:04:13,467 --> 01:04:15,033
convicted
and I didn't do it

1265
01:04:15,033 --> 01:04:16,400
and what
a terrible injustice."

1266
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,667
Jessie talked
all the way down there

1267
01:04:17,667 --> 01:04:18,967
about how
he committed the crime

1268
01:04:18,967 --> 01:04:21,266
in specific details.

1269
01:04:21,266 --> 01:04:25,667
Unfortunately,
we need his testimony
real bad.

1270
01:04:25,667 --> 01:04:28,600
If it was
a perfect world,

1271
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,300
you know, we would take
what we have on Jessie
and leave it,

1272
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:33,600
and we'd go
and get the other two.

1273
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:36,233
And get them and be happy,
but it's not.

1274
01:04:36,233 --> 01:04:39,800
And, uh... we need
his testimony to be sure

1275
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,533
we get convictions
on the other two.

1276
01:04:41,533 --> 01:04:46,367
I think we're gonna negotiate
his sentence down some

1277
01:04:46,367 --> 01:04:48,300
in order to get him
to testify.

1278
01:04:48,300 --> 01:04:50,066
He's not gonna,
you know, testify

1279
01:04:50,066 --> 01:04:52,867
just out of the goodness
of his heart.

1280
01:04:52,867 --> 01:04:54,934
The only way
that I think that

1281
01:04:54,934 --> 01:04:56,934
he will be
willing to testify

1282
01:04:56,934 --> 01:04:59,467
is if the life sentence
is removed.

1283
01:05:02,333 --> 01:05:07,200
Now, I do wanna say
all is not lost
if he doesn't testify,

1284
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:11,400
but the odds
are reduced significantly.

1285
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,400
Uh, we've still got
some evidence.

1286
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,700
What we've got,
besides Jessie--

1287
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:20,734
( clears throat )
is we've got a--

1288
01:05:20,734 --> 01:05:24,367
a fiber that was
found on, um--

1289
01:05:24,367 --> 01:05:27,133
it was found
on Stevie's shirt,

1290
01:05:27,133 --> 01:05:31,600
that matched a fiber
from Jason Baldwin's mother,

1291
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,800
which is called
secondary transfer.

1292
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,600
We've got a fiber
from a-- a shirt--

1293
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,333
or a couple of fibers
from a shirt

1294
01:05:40,333 --> 01:05:43,900
found at Echols' house,
found, um--

1295
01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:45,633
one of them was on,
like, the Cub Scout--

1296
01:05:45,633 --> 01:05:47,066
Michael's Cub Scout cap,

1297
01:05:47,066 --> 01:05:50,667
another one
maybe on the shirt,
that matched Damien's.

1298
01:05:50,667 --> 01:05:52,400
Fiber evidence it's--

1299
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,700
it's-- in my opinion,
it's better than
hair evidence,

1300
01:05:55,700 --> 01:05:58,567
but they can't say
that it came from that
particular garment

1301
01:05:58,567 --> 01:06:00,900
to the exclusion
of all others.

1302
01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:04,467
We've got
the Hollingsworth clan
that says

1303
01:06:04,467 --> 01:06:06,266
they saw Damien
and Domini out

1304
01:06:06,266 --> 01:06:07,834
on the service road.

1305
01:06:07,834 --> 01:06:10,400
We've got some, um...

1306
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:12,633
kids that say
that Damien at a--

1307
01:06:12,633 --> 01:06:16,500
they heard him
at a girls' softball game,
overheard him say

1308
01:06:16,500 --> 01:06:18,700
that he killed
the three boys,

1309
01:06:18,700 --> 01:06:19,900
and that he was gonna kill

1310
01:06:19,900 --> 01:06:22,400
two more before
he turned himself in.

1311
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:24,033
- And--
- Man: They haven't
scared them off yet

1312
01:06:24,033 --> 01:06:25,266
like they did
the other ones?

1313
01:06:25,266 --> 01:06:28,000
- Well, no, not yet.
- ( Davis mumbles )

1314
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,867
- ( woman coughs )
- And we've got

1315
01:06:30,867 --> 01:06:34,734
a guy that was
in jail with Jason,

1316
01:06:34,734 --> 01:06:37,800
who says that Jason made
some incriminating statements
to him.

1317
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:39,667
Now, there are some things
that they will--

1318
01:06:39,667 --> 01:06:43,500
are gonna try
to do to attack
this kid's credibility,

1319
01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:47,533
but, um-- oh, and then
we got the knife
that was found

1320
01:06:47,533 --> 01:06:49,633
in a lake
behind Jason's house.

1321
01:06:49,633 --> 01:06:51,967
So, that's what we've got
but that's all,

1322
01:06:51,967 --> 01:06:53,500
basically
that we've got.

1323
01:06:53,500 --> 01:06:55,100
And you asked what
the odds were

1324
01:06:55,100 --> 01:06:56,867
of convicting
them without Jessie,

1325
01:06:56,867 --> 01:06:58,467
and it's, you know,

1326
01:06:58,467 --> 01:07:01,266
50-50 might be--
might be good.

1327
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:11,533
Paul Ford:
The only way
he'll come up there,

1328
01:07:11,533 --> 01:07:13,400
and sit down
in that witness chair

1329
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:16,600
and testify is if they
cut him a sweet deal.

1330
01:07:17,867 --> 01:07:19,000
You take
all the things

1331
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:20,834
that are wrong
with his statement,

1332
01:07:20,834 --> 01:07:23,900
and then add to the--
add to that recipe mix,

1333
01:07:23,900 --> 01:07:26,834
that, "I'm talking now
because I got a sweet deal,

1334
01:07:26,834 --> 01:07:28,233
and I'm not gonna--

1335
01:07:28,233 --> 01:07:30,400
I'm gonna get out
in 10 years."

1336
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:34,934
Hypothetical. "I may get out
in 10 years."

1337
01:07:34,934 --> 01:07:37,133
Well, heck yeah,
who wouldn't sing?

1338
01:07:37,133 --> 01:07:39,000
You know what I'm saying?
So he-- then he--

1339
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,667
then his evidence,
his statement,

1340
01:07:40,667 --> 01:07:42,967
his whole thing looks bad,

1341
01:07:42,967 --> 01:07:45,867
and that's-- if that's
their best evidence,
and trust me it is,

1342
01:07:45,867 --> 01:07:50,900
if they can't use
that statement against you,
they got nothing.

1343
01:07:50,900 --> 01:07:53,233
And this dog
and pony show is over.

1344
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,400
Good morning.
How you doing?

1345
01:08:05,734 --> 01:08:07,700
- Man: Morning.
- Good morning.

1346
01:08:07,700 --> 01:08:09,300
Man
Are the rumors false
about Jessie

1347
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:11,266
- turning state's evidence?
- Yes.

1348
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:15,967
- Good morning.
- Is it true that Jessie's

1349
01:08:15,967 --> 01:08:18,200
going to testify
against Damien and Jason?

1350
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:19,266
It's false.

1351
01:08:21,734 --> 01:08:23,500
I just left
Jessie at the jail,

1352
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:25,734
and he told me
that he was not
gonna testify.

1353
01:08:25,734 --> 01:08:28,166
He didn't wanna
get up there and lie,

1354
01:08:28,166 --> 01:08:31,400
uh, that the officers
have been working on him
real hard, but, uh,

1355
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,600
but he wasn't gonna listen
to them and this was--

1356
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,467
his decision was final.

1357
01:08:36,467 --> 01:08:38,467
But he can always
change his mind again.

1358
01:08:38,467 --> 01:08:39,900
I-- you know, he has.

1359
01:08:39,900 --> 01:08:42,433
He's a very confused
and scared kid, and--

1360
01:08:42,433 --> 01:08:43,900
and the officers
have scared him to death.

1361
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:44,967
Shelby:
Yeah, they have.

1362
01:08:44,967 --> 01:08:46,333
Well, I told him
last night, I said,

1363
01:08:46,333 --> 01:08:48,066
"Jessie, if you
get up there and lie,

1364
01:08:48,066 --> 01:08:49,934
I'm gonna be
in that courtroom.

1365
01:08:49,934 --> 01:08:51,700
And you're gonna have
to sit there and tell that lie

1366
01:08:51,700 --> 01:08:54,133
when you know that
I'm sitting there
listening to you,

1367
01:08:54,133 --> 01:08:56,400
when you know
I know the truth
that you are lying."

1368
01:09:02,734 --> 01:09:04,734
( cameras clicking )

1369
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,433
Woman:
Damien, are you in a cult?
Are you in a cult, Damien?

1370
01:09:09,433 --> 01:09:10,767
Man:
Damien, are you worried about

1371
01:09:10,767 --> 01:09:12,500
Jessie testifying
against you?

1372
01:09:12,500 --> 01:09:15,300
- Not in the least.
- ( clamoring )

1373
01:09:17,500 --> 01:09:21,900
Fogelman :
In looking at young people
involved in the occult,

1374
01:09:21,900 --> 01:09:25,100
do you see
any particular type of dress?

1375
01:09:25,100 --> 01:09:28,900
I have personally
observed people wearing,

1376
01:09:28,900 --> 01:09:34,233
black fingernails,
having their hair
painted black,

1377
01:09:34,233 --> 01:09:36,900
wearing black T-shirts.

1378
01:09:36,900 --> 01:09:42,300
Sometimes
they will tattoo themselves.

1379
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:44,834
Fogelman :
Do you have an opinion
as to whether or not

1380
01:09:44,834 --> 01:09:47,467
there are
occult overtones

1381
01:09:47,467 --> 01:09:50,133
or evidence
of occult involvement

1382
01:09:50,133 --> 01:09:52,233
in these particular murders?

1383
01:09:53,867 --> 01:09:59,834
Well, the date
being close to Beltane...

1384
01:09:59,834 --> 01:10:02,867
- What is that? All right.
- ...a holiday, May 1st.

1385
01:10:02,867 --> 01:10:07,467
Also, the day before
that is Walpurgisnacht.

1386
01:10:07,467 --> 01:10:08,934
Then you go into

1387
01:10:08,934 --> 01:10:14,166
the fact that some groups
of occult--

1388
01:10:14,166 --> 01:10:19,567
cult groups or-- or--
will use a full moon.

1389
01:10:19,567 --> 01:10:23,567
In several occult books,

1390
01:10:23,567 --> 01:10:27,934
they will talk about
the life force of the blood.

1391
01:10:27,934 --> 01:10:31,567
Usually
the younger the individual,

1392
01:10:31,567 --> 01:10:34,300
the more pure it is,

1393
01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:37,200
the more power
or the force it has.

1394
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:39,467
A lot of times
they will take blood,

1395
01:10:39,467 --> 01:10:41,834
and store it
for other services

1396
01:10:41,834 --> 01:10:44,066
and other use,

1397
01:10:44,066 --> 01:10:48,633
as well as consume it
or bathe in it.

1398
01:10:48,633 --> 01:10:54,266
Now, the... the items
drawn on the front,

1399
01:10:54,266 --> 01:10:55,367
what is that?

1400
01:10:55,367 --> 01:10:57,467
That is a-- that is
a pentagram.

1401
01:10:57,467 --> 01:10:59,300
That happens
to be a Wiccan,

1402
01:10:59,300 --> 01:11:01,467
or-- or white
witchcraft pentagram.

1403
01:11:01,467 --> 01:11:03,567
All right,
now if you would open,

1404
01:11:03,567 --> 01:11:05,900
the book to the front page.

1405
01:11:05,900 --> 01:11:08,000
- Yes, sir.
- All right.

1406
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,500
Now... explain
what that is.

1407
01:11:12,500 --> 01:11:14,500
- That's confusion to me.
- All right.

1408
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:18,433
And the reason why we got
a-- a white witchcraft...

1409
01:11:18,433 --> 01:11:21,533
Wiccan pentagram,
then we have

1410
01:11:21,533 --> 01:11:25,600
upside down crosses,
which comes from another type
of occultism.

1411
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,433
What type of occultism

1412
01:11:27,433 --> 01:11:29,700
- do the upside down
crosses--
-  That's black witchcraft.

1413
01:11:29,700 --> 01:11:32,934
Is it Wicca,
Satanism, or both?

1414
01:11:32,934 --> 01:11:34,767
- Both.
- Okay.

1415
01:11:34,767 --> 01:11:39,667
And did you notice
anything in particular,
about the book?

1416
01:11:39,667 --> 01:11:45,600
There's a chapter in here
called "Rise of the Devil,"
and, uh...

1417
01:11:47,100 --> 01:11:50,033
it is underlined in red,

1418
01:11:50,033 --> 01:11:53,500
and there-- there's
a couple sentences in there,

1419
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:58,767
reference to, uh, blood,
and its life force.

1420
01:11:58,767 --> 01:12:03,033
How-- how were you
accepted into enrollment

1421
01:12:03,033 --> 01:12:05,533
at Columbia
Pacific University?

1422
01:12:05,533 --> 01:12:07,734
I had to fill out a--

1423
01:12:07,734 --> 01:12:12,567
and several series of papers
including all my education,

1424
01:12:12,567 --> 01:12:14,233
background, experience.

1425
01:12:14,233 --> 01:12:17,934
Did you ever fill out
a little flier like this?

1426
01:12:17,934 --> 01:12:20,500
- No, sir.
- That says,

1427
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:23,867
"Call toll-free
for information
on how to become a doctor."

1428
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:29,333
This is a mail order college,
isn't it?

1429
01:12:29,333 --> 01:12:33,000
What classes
did you take between 1980

1430
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,333
and 1982 to obtain
your master's degree?

1431
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,767
- What cl--
- What classes?

1432
01:12:39,767 --> 01:12:42,533
- I testified--
- I'm asking what classes.

1433
01:12:42,533 --> 01:12:44,467
What classes
did you take?

1434
01:12:44,467 --> 01:12:46,567
I told you-- I answered
that before, none.

1435
01:12:46,567 --> 01:12:48,967
You did not take
any classes.

1436
01:12:48,967 --> 01:12:50,867
Between 1982

1437
01:12:50,867 --> 01:12:53,500
and 1984 when
you became a Ph.D.,

1438
01:12:53,500 --> 01:12:55,467
what classes
did you take?

1439
01:12:55,467 --> 01:12:59,133
- None.
- None. Okay.

1440
01:13:00,567 --> 01:13:02,233
Is it your opinion,

1441
01:13:02,233 --> 01:13:06,600
and do you want
to tell this jury...

1442
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:11,667
that these crimes were
motivated by occult beliefs?

1443
01:13:11,667 --> 01:13:12,567
Yes.

1444
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,200
Hutchison:
We're not trash,
by no means.

1445
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,600
My son was born
in West Memphis,

1446
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:27,800
he was raised
in West Memphis,

1447
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:30,300
and for the life of me
I cannot understand

1448
01:13:30,300 --> 01:13:34,567
why people has got
this bad image of him.

1449
01:13:34,567 --> 01:13:38,934
So what if he wore
a black trench coat.

1450
01:13:38,934 --> 01:13:41,367
He's not
the only one that does.

1451
01:13:42,934 --> 01:13:45,834
You know, so what
if he wore black T-shirts,

1452
01:13:45,834 --> 01:13:48,133
black pants.

1453
01:13:48,133 --> 01:13:50,166
Johnny Cash wears black,
doesn't he?

1454
01:13:50,166 --> 01:13:51,500
Pam Echols:
Well, I wear black.

1455
01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:54,166
Michelle wears black.

1456
01:13:54,166 --> 01:13:56,900
- Domini wears black--
- Michelle: ...wears black.
( laughs )

1457
01:13:56,900 --> 01:14:00,667
It's-- we're all just
partial to black, I guess.

1458
01:14:00,667 --> 01:14:03,333
I like black myself.

1459
01:14:03,333 --> 01:14:07,000
And I'm by no means
no devil worshipper,

1460
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:08,633
nor is he.

1461
01:14:08,633 --> 01:14:09,800
He was going to school,

1462
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:11,834
he wanted to go to school
to be a priest.

1463
01:14:11,834 --> 01:14:14,300
He was faithful
in the church,

1464
01:14:14,300 --> 01:14:19,000
and he looked into
a little bit of Wicca,

1465
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:21,533
but he-- he never
went to it,

1466
01:14:21,533 --> 01:14:23,433
and I think if people
looked into what--

1467
01:14:23,433 --> 01:14:24,533
to what Wicca is,

1468
01:14:24,533 --> 01:14:26,867
they would understand it
a little better.

1469
01:14:26,867 --> 01:14:31,266
The only thing Wiccans do
is worship the earth.

1470
01:14:40,100 --> 01:14:41,400
Echols:
People probably think

1471
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,934
that I'm in Satanism because

1472
01:14:43,934 --> 01:14:47,500
usually what
people don't understand
they try to destroy.

1473
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:51,433
Or ridicule.

1474
01:14:51,433 --> 01:14:54,100
Try to make it
look bad or wrong.

1475
01:14:56,967 --> 01:14:59,433
West Memphis
is pretty much like

1476
01:14:59,433 --> 01:15:03,667
second Salem, right now.

1477
01:15:03,667 --> 01:15:05,400
Because everything
that happens there,

1478
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:06,734
every crime
no matter what it is,

1479
01:15:06,734 --> 01:15:09,166
it's blamed on Satanism.

1480
01:15:14,767 --> 01:15:16,800
Burnett:
He's been previously sworn.

1481
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,433
Val Price:
Yes, sir, that's correct.

1482
01:15:22,133 --> 01:15:23,800
Please state your name
for the court.

1483
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,500
Damien Wayne Echols.

1484
01:15:25,500 --> 01:15:27,934
Why did you
change your name?

1485
01:15:27,934 --> 01:15:31,033
I was very involved
in the Catholic church,

1486
01:15:31,033 --> 01:15:34,233
and we were going over
different names of the saints.

1487
01:15:34,233 --> 01:15:36,900
St. Michael's was where
I went to church in,

1488
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:41,200
and we heard about this guy
from the Hawaiian Is--

1489
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:44,900
Hawaiian Islands,
Father Damien,

1490
01:15:44,900 --> 01:15:47,333
that took care of lepers,

1491
01:15:47,333 --> 01:15:50,467
until he finally caught
the disease himself and died.

1492
01:15:50,467 --> 01:15:52,166
All right, was that
the reason you chose

1493
01:15:52,166 --> 01:15:53,266
Damien as
your first name?

1494
01:15:53,266 --> 01:15:54,266
- Yes, it is.
- Okay.

1495
01:15:54,266 --> 01:15:56,400
Did the choosing
of the name Damien

1496
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:00,133
have anything to do with
any type of horror movies,

1497
01:16:00,133 --> 01:16:03,066
Satanism, cultism,
any of that nature?

1498
01:16:03,066 --> 01:16:04,967
- Nothing whatsoever.
- Okay.

1499
01:16:04,967 --> 01:16:06,734
All right,
after the time period
that you were

1500
01:16:06,734 --> 01:16:09,300
really into
the Catholic religion,

1501
01:16:09,300 --> 01:16:13,900
did you start
focusing on another
particular religion?

1502
01:16:13,900 --> 01:16:15,633
- Wicca.
- Wicca. All right.

1503
01:16:15,633 --> 01:16:18,033
Could you explain
to the ladies and gentlemen
of the jury

1504
01:16:18,033 --> 01:16:21,600
what-- some principles
about the Wicca religion?

1505
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:25,533
Um... it acknowledges
a goddess

1506
01:16:25,533 --> 01:16:27,433
in a higher regard
as a god,

1507
01:16:27,433 --> 01:16:28,967
because people
have always said

1508
01:16:28,967 --> 01:16:33,734
we're all God's children,
and men cannot have children.

1509
01:16:33,734 --> 01:16:36,700
Um... it's basically like

1510
01:16:36,700 --> 01:16:39,867
a close involvement
with nature.

1511
01:16:39,867 --> 01:16:42,400
Is there
a difference between

1512
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:46,266
the Wicca religion
and witchcraft?

1513
01:16:46,266 --> 01:16:48,467
Wicca is also
called witchcraft.

1514
01:16:48,467 --> 01:16:50,667
The word Wicca
was bastardized,

1515
01:16:50,667 --> 01:16:53,467
it originally
meant "wise one."

1516
01:16:53,467 --> 01:16:55,767
Did the fact that

1517
01:16:55,767 --> 01:16:58,567
you like to wear
all black all the time--

1518
01:16:58,567 --> 01:17:02,266
were you different
in-- in other ways
as well?

1519
01:17:02,266 --> 01:17:03,834
Yes, I've never had

1520
01:17:03,834 --> 01:17:05,800
a lot of the same interests
that other people have,

1521
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,867
like sports,
things like that.

1522
01:17:07,867 --> 01:17:09,734
I've never been
into anything like that.

1523
01:17:09,734 --> 01:17:12,200
Okay.
Did it--

1524
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,233
did it help you
deal with other people,

1525
01:17:14,233 --> 01:17:16,000
to have people kind of

1526
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,333
standoffish and sort of
back away from you?

1527
01:17:18,333 --> 01:17:20,233
Yeah,
it would make--

1528
01:17:20,233 --> 01:17:21,667
It was like
a defense mechanism.

1529
01:17:21,667 --> 01:17:23,533
It would make
people think, like,

1530
01:17:23,533 --> 01:17:25,700
"Well, he's weird,
I'm not gonna go
around him."

1531
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:28,133
So, it kept people away.

1532
01:17:28,133 --> 01:17:31,100
The state had
introduced a book,

1533
01:17:31,100 --> 01:17:32,500
Never On
A Broomstick.

1534
01:17:34,033 --> 01:17:36,033
Are you familiar
with that particular book?

1535
01:17:36,033 --> 01:17:39,400
- Yes, I am.
- All right, were did
you get that book, Damien?

1536
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,800
At the library
in Crittenden County.

1537
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:43,867
All the books
that they were

1538
01:17:43,867 --> 01:17:46,033
getting tired of
or had for a long time,
I guess,

1539
01:17:46,033 --> 01:17:49,066
they all had them
sitting on a rack
out front

1540
01:17:49,066 --> 01:17:52,300
that they were selling
for 10 cents each,
so I got it.

1541
01:17:52,300 --> 01:17:54,600
All right,
did you underline

1542
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:56,233
any of those portions
in the book?

1543
01:17:56,233 --> 01:17:57,834
No, that was done
when I got it.

1544
01:17:57,834 --> 01:17:59,667
I think it was
because somebody had
a report to do

1545
01:17:59,667 --> 01:18:02,500
or something,
because all during the book
there's, like, little notes,

1546
01:18:02,500 --> 01:18:06,367
certain dates and stuff,
like, from the 1600s

1547
01:18:06,367 --> 01:18:08,600
in the outside margin.

1548
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:11,133
So, was that book
kind of like a history of--

1549
01:18:11,133 --> 01:18:12,834
- of witchcraft,
and how it's developed...
- Yes.

1550
01:18:12,834 --> 01:18:15,266
- ...over the ages? Okay.
- Yes.

1551
01:18:15,266 --> 01:18:17,934
Are you familiar with
the contents of that notebook?

1552
01:18:17,934 --> 01:18:19,233
Yes, I am.

1553
01:18:19,233 --> 01:18:21,467
I noticed on the inside
of the front cover there,

1554
01:18:21,467 --> 01:18:24,367
- there appears to be a couple
of quotes there--
-  Yes.

1555
01:18:24,367 --> 01:18:25,600
Could you, uh,

1556
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,166
read each of those
to the jury

1557
01:18:27,166 --> 01:18:30,133
and then tell them
where that came from?

1558
01:18:30,133 --> 01:18:31,967
"Life is but
a walking shadow.

1559
01:18:31,967 --> 01:18:33,900
It is a tale
told by an idiot,

1560
01:18:33,900 --> 01:18:36,867
full of sound, and fury,
signifying nothing."

1561
01:18:36,867 --> 01:18:41,333
That's from
A Midsummer Night's Dream
by William Shakespeare.

1562
01:18:41,333 --> 01:18:43,667
Um, "Pure black
looking clear,

1563
01:18:43,667 --> 01:18:45,300
my work is soon done here.

1564
01:18:45,300 --> 01:18:48,533
Try getting back from me,
that which used to be."

1565
01:18:48,533 --> 01:18:51,233
That is off
a Metallica tape

1566
01:18:51,233 --> 01:18:53,033
called Injustice for All.

1567
01:18:53,033 --> 01:18:57,066
Talks about how warped
the court systems are

1568
01:18:57,066 --> 01:18:58,533
and stuff like that.

1569
01:18:58,533 --> 01:19:01,767
On May the 5th,

1570
01:19:01,767 --> 01:19:04,500
did you kill Michael Moore?

1571
01:19:04,500 --> 01:19:06,467
No, I did not.

1572
01:19:06,467 --> 01:19:08,600
On May the 5th,

1573
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:10,667
did you kill Stevie Branch?

1574
01:19:10,667 --> 01:19:12,400
No, I did not.

1575
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:16,066
On May the 5th,
did you kill Chris Byers?

1576
01:19:16,066 --> 01:19:17,667
No, I did not.

1577
01:19:17,667 --> 01:19:20,667
Have you ever
participated in any type
of human sacrifice?

1578
01:19:20,667 --> 01:19:22,567
No, I have not.

1579
01:19:24,100 --> 01:19:27,734
19-year-old
Damien Echols admits
he stands out in a crowd.

1580
01:19:27,734 --> 01:19:31,900
He says he loves
heavy metal music, likes--

1581
01:19:31,900 --> 01:19:34,100
( chuckles )
Shorten it a bit.

1582
01:19:34,100 --> 01:19:35,800
"Practices
the Wicca religion."

1583
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,567
Three, two... one.

1584
01:19:38,567 --> 01:19:41,367
19-year-old
Damien Echols says he's--

1585
01:19:41,367 --> 01:19:44,467
Three, two... one.

1586
01:19:44,467 --> 01:19:48,100
19-year-old
Damien Echols admits
he stands out in a crowd.

1587
01:19:48,100 --> 01:19:50,500
He says he likes to wear
black most of the time,

1588
01:19:50,500 --> 01:19:52,567
practices
the Wicca religion,

1589
01:19:52,567 --> 01:19:54,266
and loves heavy metal music,

1590
01:19:54,266 --> 01:19:56,867
but he says he's definitely
not a killer.

1591
01:19:56,867 --> 01:19:58,633
( car horn blares )

1592
01:20:00,133 --> 01:20:01,934
Hobbs:
I believe they did it,

1593
01:20:01,934 --> 01:20:06,667
and if they were
to be set free on the street,

1594
01:20:06,667 --> 01:20:09,266
then they would have to look
behind their back--

1595
01:20:09,266 --> 01:20:12,567
watch behind their back
to see if Pam Hobbs went
and followed them.

1596
01:20:12,567 --> 01:20:17,734
Because I'm just saying this
as a human, you know...

1597
01:20:17,734 --> 01:20:21,000
I-- I would, I believe
I'd try and kill them, too,

1598
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:24,734
if they ever walk the street
and I'm still alive.

1599
01:20:24,734 --> 01:20:27,767
I believe
I'd be stalking them.

1600
01:20:27,767 --> 01:20:29,433
To do to them...

1601
01:20:30,900 --> 01:20:33,800
Probably shoot them
and then cut them up.

1602
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:35,433
Marie Hicks:
When I was down
at the courtroom,

1603
01:20:35,433 --> 01:20:36,800
and Damien walked past me,

1604
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:39,166
I wanted to just go over there
and take my hand

1605
01:20:39,166 --> 01:20:41,300
and just claw down his face,

1606
01:20:41,300 --> 01:20:45,367
inflict any kind of pain
that I can inflict on him.

1607
01:20:45,367 --> 01:20:47,934
I know eventually we're going
to have to forgive him,

1608
01:20:47,934 --> 01:20:50,567
I know that
and I understand that,

1609
01:20:50,567 --> 01:20:52,600
but when it happens
in your home,

1610
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,667
and you watch your wife
lose her mind--

1611
01:20:55,667 --> 01:20:58,066
you know,
whatever happened to her.

1612
01:20:58,066 --> 01:21:01,567
Your home is tore apart,
busted up.

1613
01:21:01,567 --> 01:21:05,000
I don't feel
it's fair right now

1614
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:06,433
for someone to ask me

1615
01:21:06,433 --> 01:21:09,300
to forgive the ones
that caused it.

1616
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,066
( stutters )
It'd take some time,

1617
01:21:13,066 --> 01:21:15,533
a long time
before I could forgive them.

1618
01:21:15,533 --> 01:21:18,800
Jackie Hicks:
You-- you say that
it's gonna take time.

1619
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:22,300
We don't know
how much time we got.

1620
01:21:22,300 --> 01:21:25,100
Pam, we wouldn't be able
to see Stevie again.

1621
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:27,367
We have to forgive
in our heart because

1622
01:21:27,367 --> 01:21:32,033
the Lord... forgave us.

1623
01:21:32,033 --> 01:21:36,333
He forgave us,
He shedded His blood for us.

1624
01:21:36,333 --> 01:21:39,033
He shedded
his blood for them.

1625
01:21:40,500 --> 01:21:45,600
And-- he just--
just asked us to have a...

1626
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:47,667
a-- a forgiving spirit.

1627
01:21:47,667 --> 01:21:51,533
And I refuse to serve sin
and Satan.

1628
01:21:54,433 --> 01:21:56,600
Because I'm gonna see
Stevie again.

1629
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:58,367
I'm gonna be
with Stevie again.

1630
01:21:58,367 --> 01:22:00,500
I'm gonna be
with my mother again.

1631
01:22:00,500 --> 01:22:01,867
I'm gonna be with her mother,

1632
01:22:01,867 --> 01:22:04,734
your grandmother,
both of them.

1633
01:22:04,734 --> 01:22:08,000
I'm gonna be
with all of my loved ones

1634
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:10,233
that have passed on
and went to Heaven.

1635
01:22:30,266 --> 01:22:32,500
( sobbing )

1636
01:22:35,233 --> 01:22:38,700
Man:
If you could speak
to the families

1637
01:22:38,700 --> 01:22:42,000
of these-- these kids,
who think you did it,

1638
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,500
you know,
what would you say to them?

1639
01:22:56,667 --> 01:22:58,000
I don't know.

1640
01:23:04,433 --> 01:23:05,667
Echols:
Jason was my best friend.

1641
01:23:05,667 --> 01:23:08,967
We did
about everything together.

1642
01:23:08,967 --> 01:23:11,667
It was kind of like
we even lived together
most of the time,

1643
01:23:11,667 --> 01:23:16,100
stayed at each other's houses,
wore each other's clothes.

1644
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:17,667
It was more like
we were brothers.

1645
01:23:17,667 --> 01:23:20,700
We used to go out
and snake hunt all the time.

1646
01:23:22,233 --> 01:23:26,000
Snakes and music were, like,
about our whole life, really.

1647
01:23:29,567 --> 01:23:34,166
We lis--
we were, like, all the time,
looking for new groups

1648
01:23:34,166 --> 01:23:35,834
that we would like
or something.

1649
01:23:35,834 --> 01:23:37,066
Our favorite kinds of music

1650
01:23:37,066 --> 01:23:40,266
were, like,
Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth.

1651
01:23:42,667 --> 01:23:44,367
U2.

1652
01:23:49,934 --> 01:23:52,033
We'd do just about
everything together.

1653
01:23:56,133 --> 01:23:57,633
Davis:
Now I want to draw
your attention

1654
01:23:57,633 --> 01:24:00,066
back to August
of last year.

1655
01:24:00,066 --> 01:24:03,233
Were you in the Cricket County
Juvenile Detention Facility?

1656
01:24:03,233 --> 01:24:06,300
- Yes, I was.
- Okay, and what were you
in there for at the time?

1657
01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:08,300
- Burglary.
- Okay.

1658
01:24:08,300 --> 01:24:11,934
And when you were there,

1659
01:24:11,934 --> 01:24:14,000
was there a Jason Baldwin

1660
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,166
in the juvenile
detention facility
at the same time?

1661
01:24:17,166 --> 01:24:19,667
- Yes.
- Now, while
you were in contact

1662
01:24:19,667 --> 01:24:21,300
with this Jason Baldwin,

1663
01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:24,367
was there anything mentioned
about his involvement

1664
01:24:24,367 --> 01:24:26,300
in the murders
of three 8-year-olds?

1665
01:24:26,300 --> 01:24:28,533
Yes, well,
we was sitting there
playing Spades

1666
01:24:28,533 --> 01:24:31,567
and I wanted to get to know
everybody off in there,

1667
01:24:31,567 --> 01:24:34,533
'cause I don't know
what you call it,

1668
01:24:34,533 --> 01:24:36,367
but I just wanted
to get to know him.

1669
01:24:36,367 --> 01:24:38,433
And I just straight out
asked him if he did it.

1670
01:24:38,433 --> 01:24:40,900
And he denied it,
the first time.

1671
01:24:40,900 --> 01:24:43,100
Okay, did you have
an occasion again

1672
01:24:43,100 --> 01:24:45,033
while you were
in the detention facility

1673
01:24:45,033 --> 01:24:47,567
to ask him was he involved
in the murders

1674
01:24:47,567 --> 01:24:48,934
of the three 8-year-olds?

1675
01:24:48,934 --> 01:24:52,600
Yes, I think it was,
like, the next day.

1676
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:55,200
I believe it was
the next day.

1677
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,967
And can you tell us
what the scenar--

1678
01:24:57,967 --> 01:24:59,600
what was going on,
what was happening

1679
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:01,066
at the time
that occurred?

1680
01:25:01,066 --> 01:25:04,533
Well, me and Jason Baldwin
were scraping up the cards,

1681
01:25:04,533 --> 01:25:05,867
going ourselves for lunch.

1682
01:25:05,867 --> 01:25:08,767
I said, "Just between me
and you, I won't say a word.

1683
01:25:08,767 --> 01:25:12,867
Did you do it?"
And he said yes and he went
into detail about it.

1684
01:25:12,867 --> 01:25:15,734
You said he went
into more detail.
What did he tell you?

1685
01:25:15,734 --> 01:25:19,567
He told me
how he dismembered the kid

1686
01:25:19,567 --> 01:25:21,300
or I don't know exactly
how many kids,

1687
01:25:21,300 --> 01:25:23,133
so he just said
he dismembered them.

1688
01:25:23,133 --> 01:25:24,133
He sucked the blood

1689
01:25:24,133 --> 01:25:25,767
from the penis
and the scrotum,

1690
01:25:25,767 --> 01:25:28,200
and put the balls
in his mouth.

1691
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:31,667
Now, Michael,
when was it

1692
01:25:31,667 --> 01:25:35,967
that you came forward
with this information?

1693
01:25:35,967 --> 01:25:37,600
I'm not really sure.

1694
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,667
I believe it was like
a couple of months later.

1695
01:25:39,667 --> 01:25:42,000
Davis:
What caused you
to come forward

1696
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,834
at that point in time?

1697
01:25:43,834 --> 01:25:45,600
Why-- why did
Michael Carson

1698
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:47,967
no longer wanted
to stay uninvolved?

1699
01:25:47,967 --> 01:25:49,867
Why didn't you come forward
in February this year?

1700
01:25:49,867 --> 01:25:51,934
'Cause I saw
the family on TV,

1701
01:25:51,934 --> 01:25:55,533
and saw how brokenhearted
they were about their children
being missing,

1702
01:25:55,533 --> 01:25:58,500
and I got a soft heart,
I couldn't take it.

1703
01:26:06,967 --> 01:26:09,533
( coughing )

1704
01:26:12,300 --> 01:26:16,567
Now, he tells you this
and then you're silent

1705
01:26:16,567 --> 01:26:21,100
from August
until February.

1706
01:26:21,100 --> 01:26:22,900
- Is that right?
- Yes, sir.

1707
01:26:22,900 --> 01:26:24,734
And then
in the second conversation

1708
01:26:24,734 --> 01:26:26,600
you've ever had
with this young man

1709
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:30,033
in his entire life,
he tells you all this stuff.

1710
01:26:30,033 --> 01:26:31,266
Yes, sir.

1711
01:26:31,266 --> 01:26:33,767
After he's had
one conversation with you.

1712
01:26:33,767 --> 01:26:35,333
Yes, sir.

1713
01:26:38,300 --> 01:26:40,233
Ford:
One day when I was up here
in Jonesboro working

1714
01:26:40,233 --> 01:26:43,533
and phone rings,
secretary says,

1715
01:26:43,533 --> 01:26:45,266
"You won't know who he is,
but he needs to talk to you."

1716
01:26:45,266 --> 01:26:47,200
I pick up the phone, he says,
"I'm Danny Williams,

1717
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:48,867
I'm embarrassed to tell you
what I need to tell you."

1718
01:26:48,867 --> 01:26:52,233
He said, "But I work with
the juvenile department here

1719
01:26:52,233 --> 01:26:55,133
and I do drug
and alcohol counseling.

1720
01:26:55,133 --> 01:26:58,567
And there's a guy
named Michael Carson

1721
01:26:58,567 --> 01:27:01,767
who's gonna testify that Jason
confessed to him in the jail,

1722
01:27:01,767 --> 01:27:03,633
and I know he's lying."

1723
01:27:03,633 --> 01:27:04,900
I said,
"What are you talking about?"

1724
01:27:04,900 --> 01:27:07,900
He said, "Well,"
he said, "Several months ago,

1725
01:27:07,900 --> 01:27:11,333
Michael Carson
was one of the kids
that I worked with,

1726
01:27:11,333 --> 01:27:15,333
and he and I
had a conversation

1727
01:27:15,333 --> 01:27:18,834
where I told him
that this Jason Baldwin

1728
01:27:18,834 --> 01:27:22,734
had been accused
of killing three boys
and sexually mutilating them."

1729
01:27:22,734 --> 01:27:27,000
And basically, he gave
Michael Carson the details

1730
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:29,333
that he testified
to at the trial.

1731
01:27:29,333 --> 01:27:32,433
At the time,
Carson says nothing.

1732
01:27:32,433 --> 01:27:35,867
And then, he later--
Carson later tells him,

1733
01:27:35,867 --> 01:27:38,133
he said, "Hey,
by the way, Danny, I've--

1734
01:27:38,133 --> 01:27:41,000
I've-- telling
the police that, you know,

1735
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:42,400
Jason confessed to me."

1736
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:44,633
And so he calls me up
and says, "Hey, no, no, no."

1737
01:27:44,633 --> 01:27:46,467
He said, "This kid's a liar,

1738
01:27:46,467 --> 01:27:48,834
he's no good,
I know he's lying.

1739
01:27:48,834 --> 01:27:51,900
And the only reason he's got
this information is because
I gave it to him."

1740
01:27:51,900 --> 01:27:54,767
The counselor of this kid
called the prosecution

1741
01:27:54,767 --> 01:27:57,633
and told them
what a liar he was,

1742
01:27:57,633 --> 01:27:59,533
and the prosecution
still used the kid--

1743
01:27:59,533 --> 01:28:02,734
- That's right.
- And now they're trying
to keep out the fact--

1744
01:28:02,734 --> 01:28:04,333
the background of the kid.

1745
01:28:04,333 --> 01:28:06,500
Obviously, we want to get
that information out,

1746
01:28:06,500 --> 01:28:09,066
but the judge acts like
he may not let us use him
at all.

1747
01:28:09,066 --> 01:28:12,867
We should absolutely
be able to let

1748
01:28:12,867 --> 01:28:15,633
that jury know
that he is LSD-dependent

1749
01:28:15,633 --> 01:28:18,567
because it does affect
his ability to recall.

1750
01:28:18,567 --> 01:28:20,100
You know,
the judge takes us--

1751
01:28:20,100 --> 01:28:22,667
takes all that away from us,
yeah, the kid looks
pretty believable.

1752
01:28:22,667 --> 01:28:25,100
Not only are they-- are they
keeping out the background

1753
01:28:25,100 --> 01:28:26,500
of the kid when he testifies

1754
01:28:26,500 --> 01:28:28,967
so the jury doesn't have
all the eggs,

1755
01:28:28,967 --> 01:28:32,533
but now they're keeping out
the counselor who even knows
about this kid

1756
01:28:32,533 --> 01:28:35,133
who told them the story
in the first place

1757
01:28:35,133 --> 01:28:37,400
prior to him ever telling
the police.

1758
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,266
All that goes
to the credibility.

1759
01:28:39,266 --> 01:28:40,800
Wadley:
I think that
would have shown the jury

1760
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:42,834
that he didn't have
quite that kind heart,

1761
01:28:42,834 --> 01:28:44,967
that soft heart that
he tried to tell them.

1762
01:28:44,967 --> 01:28:45,867
That's right.

1763
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:57,300
Fogelman :
Detective Allen, I want

1764
01:28:57,300 --> 01:29:02,000
to direct your attention
to November the 17th, 1993.

1765
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,333
Were you asked to, uh,

1766
01:29:04,333 --> 01:29:07,266
make contact
with some property owners

1767
01:29:07,266 --> 01:29:09,233
at the Lakeshore
Trailer Park

1768
01:29:09,233 --> 01:29:13,533
and also get
with the Arkansas
State Police dive team?

1769
01:29:13,533 --> 01:29:14,533
Allen:
Yes, sir, I was.

1770
01:29:14,533 --> 01:29:17,500
And after a period of time--

1771
01:29:17,500 --> 01:29:21,133
( stuttering )
of searching,

1772
01:29:21,133 --> 01:29:24,233
do you know whether
any items were recovered?

1773
01:29:24,233 --> 01:29:26,467
- Uh, yes, sir.
- All right.

1774
01:29:26,467 --> 01:29:28,133
Marked
for identification purposes

1775
01:29:28,133 --> 01:29:30,033
is state's exhibit 77,

1776
01:29:30,033 --> 01:29:32,400
and I ask
if you can identify that.

1777
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:46,300
Yes, I can identify this
by my, uh...

1778
01:29:47,533 --> 01:29:52,000
11/17 of '93, M. Allen,
that I put here.

1779
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,200
- Where did you get
the knife?
- I got this knife

1780
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:57,367
from a diver with the--
with the state police.

1781
01:29:57,367 --> 01:29:59,934
How long did
this search take place?

1782
01:29:59,934 --> 01:30:00,900
- How long?
- Yes, sir.

1783
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:04,500
From memory,
I'm thinking maybe

1784
01:30:04,500 --> 01:30:06,734
10:30 am is about the time
they got suited up

1785
01:30:06,734 --> 01:30:08,767
and started--
started to look.

1786
01:30:08,767 --> 01:30:11,367
And you quit--
you quit at when?

1787
01:30:11,367 --> 01:30:14,934
They located the...

1788
01:30:14,934 --> 01:30:19,266
knife at 11:35 am.

1789
01:30:19,266 --> 01:30:21,400
- So, what--
- Or 11:30-11:35.

1790
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:25,033
- So, about an hour.
- About an hour
and a half, yeah.

1791
01:30:25,033 --> 01:30:27,633
Are you telling
this jury that this knife

1792
01:30:27,633 --> 01:30:29,367
is the murder weapon?

1793
01:30:29,367 --> 01:30:30,667
Is that what
you're telling this jury?

1794
01:30:30,667 --> 01:30:32,266
No, sir, I'm not
telling the jury that.

1795
01:30:32,266 --> 01:30:34,533
Okay, now that we're good.
Understand that.

1796
01:30:34,533 --> 01:30:37,433
What day were
these individuals charged?

1797
01:30:37,433 --> 01:30:41,166
What day did you all
charge Damien Echols
with this crime?

1798
01:30:41,166 --> 01:30:43,333
- Was it June the 3rd?
- Yes, sir.

1799
01:30:43,333 --> 01:30:46,900
And what day was it
that you were out there
searching this lake?

1800
01:30:46,900 --> 01:30:50,200
This was on 11/17 of '93.

1801
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,066
November 17 of 1993.

1802
01:30:53,066 --> 01:30:54,200
- Yes, sir.
- That's all.

1803
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:57,100
( chatter )

1804
01:30:57,100 --> 01:30:59,934
( mumbles )

1805
01:31:01,266 --> 01:31:03,800
The damn system stinks.

1806
01:31:06,667 --> 01:31:08,300
They're playing
with our lives,

1807
01:31:08,300 --> 01:31:10,233
and there's nothing
right about it.

1808
01:31:10,233 --> 01:31:12,200
It's kind of like the Nazis,
you know.

1809
01:31:12,200 --> 01:31:13,967
They can just
take somebody's word

1810
01:31:13,967 --> 01:31:18,667
and come in your house
and take you away.

1811
01:31:18,667 --> 01:31:20,266
And basically,
that's what they did

1812
01:31:20,266 --> 01:31:22,734
because of what
Jessie told them,

1813
01:31:22,734 --> 01:31:25,400
even though it had all
those inconsistencies in it.

1814
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:29,333
If we'd had money,
do you think these three boys
would've been picked up?

1815
01:31:29,333 --> 01:31:32,066
They found people that
they knew that didn't
have money,

1816
01:31:32,066 --> 01:31:33,967
some boys that been
in a little bit of trouble.

1817
01:31:33,967 --> 01:31:36,200
They thought
we didn't care,

1818
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:38,000
but they were wrong.

1819
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:39,800
They're bad wrong.

1820
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:42,533
I don't believe
that chil-- that children

1821
01:31:42,533 --> 01:31:45,600
could be that cold-blooded

1822
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:47,934
as what happened
to those boys.

1823
01:31:47,934 --> 01:31:53,567
Frank J. Peretti:
And state's exhibit 67A
shows the, um...

1824
01:31:53,567 --> 01:31:56,000
the hog-tying fashion
on the-- the hands

1825
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,100
were hog-tied to the feet

1826
01:31:59,100 --> 01:32:01,133
behind the back,
and this is the photograph,

1827
01:32:01,133 --> 01:32:05,033
um, showing that
the shoelaces.

1828
01:32:06,767 --> 01:32:08,767
And that injury, um...

1829
01:32:08,767 --> 01:32:11,767
you say is-- is typical
of a belt injury.

1830
01:32:11,767 --> 01:32:13,400
You know,
the belt has a little buckle,

1831
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:14,767
and that's what
the-- the buckle,

1832
01:32:14,767 --> 01:32:16,667
that's that little one
that goes back and forth,

1833
01:32:16,667 --> 01:32:20,000
left and right,
that's the-- the base
of the latch.

1834
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,500
( clears throat )
Here, this red area here,

1835
01:32:23,500 --> 01:32:26,533
this is the, uh,
the shaft of the penis.

1836
01:32:26,533 --> 01:32:28,900
And here is where
the scrotal sac
and testes should be,

1837
01:32:28,900 --> 01:32:30,300
and they're missing.

1838
01:32:30,300 --> 01:32:33,467
So what we have is that
the-the skin overlying the penis

1839
01:32:33,467 --> 01:32:35,500
and the head of the penis
has been carved off,

1840
01:32:35,500 --> 01:32:36,633
it's gone,
its not there.

1841
01:32:38,166 --> 01:32:41,467
In layman's language
that I-I understand...

1842
01:32:43,266 --> 01:32:47,300
with respect-- his penis
has not been cut off, has it?

1843
01:32:47,300 --> 01:32:50,066
No, the-the skin has been
taken off the penis, yeah.

1844
01:32:50,066 --> 01:32:55,967
And basically it would take
some skill and precision
to do that, wouldn't it?

1845
01:32:57,266 --> 01:32:58,967
- I would think so.
- Okay.

1846
01:32:58,967 --> 01:33:02,800
It was to be done,
this dissection,

1847
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:06,100
where the skin
is cut off,

1848
01:33:06,100 --> 01:33:08,767
that would take a very sharp
instrument, would it not?

1849
01:33:08,767 --> 01:33:11,433
Um, I-I think it would.

1850
01:33:11,433 --> 01:33:13,166
Such as a razor.

1851
01:33:13,166 --> 01:33:14,967
- Or a sharp knife.
- A very sharp knife.

1852
01:33:14,967 --> 01:33:17,233
Doctor,
if you were to do this,

1853
01:33:17,233 --> 01:33:19,166
with the skill
and the precision

1854
01:33:19,166 --> 01:33:20,734
and the knowledge
that you take,

1855
01:33:20,734 --> 01:33:22,767
how long would
it take you to do that?

1856
01:33:22,767 --> 01:33:24,633
Frank Peretti:
It would take me some time.

1857
01:33:24,633 --> 01:33:26,734
Paul Ford:
It'd take you longer than
five to ten minutes.

1858
01:33:26,734 --> 01:33:28,133
I would think so.

1859
01:33:28,133 --> 01:33:31,200
And that's at--
in your lab.

1860
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,433
- I would think so.
- With a scalpel.

1861
01:33:34,433 --> 01:33:35,934
- Is that correct?
- That's correct.

1862
01:33:35,934 --> 01:33:38,667
Now, Doctor, if we added
to the equation

1863
01:33:38,667 --> 01:33:40,734
that you were
in the dark,

1864
01:33:40,734 --> 01:33:44,266
could you-- could you
do this in the dark?

1865
01:33:44,266 --> 01:33:46,400
You, Doctor, could you
do it in the dark?

1866
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:48,200
Peretti:
It'd be difficult.

1867
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:51,367
Could you do this
in the water?

1868
01:33:51,367 --> 01:33:55,467
You, Doctor, could you
do this in the water?

1869
01:33:55,467 --> 01:33:57,400
I think it would be
very difficult to do.

1870
01:33:57,400 --> 01:34:00,700
If you were doing it
in the dark,

1871
01:34:00,700 --> 01:34:06,467
in the water,
with mosquitos
all around you,

1872
01:34:06,467 --> 01:34:08,800
would that make it
even much more difficult?

1873
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:10,834
I would think so.

1874
01:34:10,834 --> 01:34:15,133
I would take you-- it would be
a very tedious task for you.

1875
01:34:15,133 --> 01:34:17,266
- It wou--
- A skilled pathologist.

1876
01:34:17,266 --> 01:34:19,200
It would.

1877
01:34:19,200 --> 01:34:21,500
Now, isn't it true,
Doctor,

1878
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:25,667
that people have five--
about five pints of blood?

1879
01:34:25,667 --> 01:34:26,900
A little more
than that, yes.

1880
01:34:26,900 --> 01:34:28,567
Okay, um...

1881
01:34:28,567 --> 01:34:31,734
now, if I poured out
five pints of blood

1882
01:34:31,734 --> 01:34:33,367
out here
on the floor,

1883
01:34:33,367 --> 01:34:34,734
it'd make a big mess,
wouldn't it?

1884
01:34:34,734 --> 01:34:35,834
Yes.

1885
01:34:35,834 --> 01:34:39,900
And it would be almost
impossible to clean up.

1886
01:34:39,900 --> 01:34:42,633
Well, you could do it,
but... not very easily.

1887
01:34:42,633 --> 01:34:44,433
It'd be very,
very difficult,
wouldn't it?

1888
01:34:44,433 --> 01:34:45,800
It's not easy
to clean blood.

1889
01:34:45,800 --> 01:34:48,800
Okay, does blood
soak into the ground?

1890
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:49,934
- Um, yes it does.
- Okay.

1891
01:34:49,934 --> 01:34:52,567
Doctor,
with this homicide

1892
01:34:52,567 --> 01:34:55,166
we're talking about
here today,

1893
01:34:55,166 --> 01:34:59,934
would you agree with me that
this could have happened
in one of three ways.

1894
01:34:59,934 --> 01:35:02,100
These injuries could have
happened in the water,

1895
01:35:02,100 --> 01:35:04,300
these injuries could have
happened on the bank

1896
01:35:04,300 --> 01:35:05,734
there by the side
of the ditch,

1897
01:35:05,734 --> 01:35:07,567
or it could've happened
somewhere else.

1898
01:35:07,567 --> 01:35:09,934
Would you agree with me those
are the three possibilities

1899
01:35:09,934 --> 01:35:11,133
of how this could've happened?

1900
01:35:11,133 --> 01:35:12,867
- Yes.
- Okay, now,

1901
01:35:12,867 --> 01:35:15,500
with your knowledge
of the amount of blood
that was lost

1902
01:35:15,500 --> 01:35:16,900
from not only Chris Byers

1903
01:35:16,900 --> 01:35:19,066
but these other boys,
who've had some pretty--

1904
01:35:19,066 --> 01:35:20,734
they're gonna bleed
as well, won't they?

1905
01:35:20,734 --> 01:35:22,066
- Oh, yes.
- Okay.

1906
01:35:22,066 --> 01:35:23,834
Do you have an opinion
as to whether or not

1907
01:35:23,834 --> 01:35:26,734
you could clean up
that amount of blood

1908
01:35:26,734 --> 01:35:29,000
at a scene in the dark?

1909
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:30,767
Do you have an opinion
as to that?

1910
01:35:30,767 --> 01:35:32,867
I think it'll be
quite difficult to do,

1911
01:35:32,867 --> 01:35:37,900
to have, um,
injuries of this nature

1912
01:35:37,900 --> 01:35:39,734
without having any blood.

1913
01:35:39,734 --> 01:35:41,533
I mean, that's...

1914
01:35:41,533 --> 01:35:43,633
I-I would question that,
about the blood.

1915
01:35:43,633 --> 01:35:45,066
Okay.

1916
01:35:45,066 --> 01:35:47,734
Unless it happened in the water
or it happened some other place.

1917
01:35:47,734 --> 01:35:50,633
Okay, and you again, Doctor,
stated that you couldn't--

1918
01:35:50,633 --> 01:35:53,400
you couldn't do this
in the water.

1919
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:56,200
- Personally, I-I don't
think I could.
- Okay.

1920
01:35:56,200 --> 01:36:00,033
I don't get off
on hurting people or...

1921
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:06,200
inflicting pain on the rest
of the human race or just...

1922
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:11,500
causing destruction
for the purpose of destruction.

1923
01:36:11,500 --> 01:36:17,400
I probably been in one
or two fights my entire life.

1924
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:18,900
Mmm.

1925
01:36:23,767 --> 01:36:26,900
And especially a child.

1926
01:36:28,767 --> 01:36:32,667
It just-- because they didn't
do anything to deserve

1927
01:36:32,667 --> 01:36:34,166
what they got.

1928
01:36:38,166 --> 01:36:39,667
Mmm.

1929
01:36:47,700 --> 01:36:51,967
And I believe whatever you do
to someone else,

1930
01:36:51,967 --> 01:36:53,333
whether it's good or bad,

1931
01:36:53,333 --> 01:36:57,300
is eventually gonna
come back around to you.

1932
01:36:57,300 --> 01:36:59,367
Hmm.

1933
01:36:59,367 --> 01:37:02,500
Even the person who did this,
if they're not caught

1934
01:37:02,500 --> 01:37:05,734
and punished, then something
will happen in their life

1935
01:37:05,734 --> 01:37:10,367
where they will
be punished.

1936
01:37:10,367 --> 01:37:12,066
( dogs barking )

1937
01:37:12,066 --> 01:37:13,600
Domini Teer:
People kept telling me not
to go out with him

1938
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:15,033
because he was, like...

1939
01:37:15,033 --> 01:37:16,834
some kind of devil worshipper
and stuff

1940
01:37:16,834 --> 01:37:19,400
and I met him in Wal-Mart.

1941
01:37:19,400 --> 01:37:21,367
( chuckles )

1942
01:37:21,367 --> 01:37:25,900
And-and he followed me around
like a puppy dog.

1943
01:37:25,900 --> 01:37:29,367
And we just started talking,
you know, he's real sweet.

1944
01:37:29,367 --> 01:37:32,000
Not like everybody else
was making him out to be.

1945
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:36,100
That night,
we started going out,
and-- it was like, a month,

1946
01:37:36,100 --> 01:37:37,767
and he called me up
on the telephone

1947
01:37:37,767 --> 01:37:40,734
at my dad's girlfriend's house,
and he goes,

1948
01:37:40,734 --> 01:37:44,200
"Will you me marry me?"
I'm like, "What?"

1949
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:46,266
And he goes,
"Will you marry me?"

1950
01:37:46,266 --> 01:37:48,934
I was like, "Could you repeat
that one more time?"

1951
01:37:48,934 --> 01:37:51,800
And he goes,
"Will you marry me?",
and I said...

1952
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,066
"Yeah."

1953
01:37:54,066 --> 01:37:55,333
When I got pregnant,

1954
01:37:55,333 --> 01:37:57,433
I had this big picture
painted in my mind.

1955
01:37:57,433 --> 01:37:59,133
You know,
Damien's gonna be there

1956
01:37:59,133 --> 01:38:01,900
and I get to yell at him
when I have the baby.

1957
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:06,467
And instead,
I was yelling at her.

1958
01:38:06,467 --> 01:38:07,633
( sobbing )

1959
01:38:07,633 --> 01:38:09,734
I miss him so much.

1960
01:38:15,133 --> 01:38:17,867
I mean, and he isn't
gonna see the baby,

1961
01:38:17,867 --> 01:38:22,667
they won't let him
touch the baby.

1962
01:38:22,667 --> 01:38:25,800
It makes me so,
well, pissed off.

1963
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:28,400
I just felt different
when he was born.

1964
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:32,734
It was...

1965
01:38:32,734 --> 01:38:37,700
It made me feel, like, I guess
just real good inside.

1966
01:38:37,700 --> 01:38:40,000
Just...

1967
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:43,233
to think that I gave life
to another human being.

1968
01:38:44,834 --> 01:38:47,333
Something completely
separate from me,

1969
01:38:47,333 --> 01:38:49,233
but still part of me.

1970
01:38:57,633 --> 01:39:01,066
I just hope that I'll be there
when he grows up,

1971
01:39:01,066 --> 01:39:02,900
to watch him.

1972
01:39:02,900 --> 01:39:04,800
Brent Davis:
You're familiar with a fellow

1973
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:06,700
named Aleister Crowley?

1974
01:39:06,700 --> 01:39:08,300
- I know who he is.
- You've heard of him?

1975
01:39:08,300 --> 01:39:09,533
- I know who he is.
- Okay.

1976
01:39:09,533 --> 01:39:11,533
Uh, and...

1977
01:39:11,533 --> 01:39:13,500
He's the guy
who kind of professes--

1978
01:39:13,500 --> 01:39:16,600
he's-- he's a noted author

1979
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:18,967
in the field
of Satanic worship, right?

1980
01:39:18,967 --> 01:39:20,700
I've never--
I know who he is

1981
01:39:20,700 --> 01:39:22,767
but I never saw any
of his books, personally.

1982
01:39:22,767 --> 01:39:25,600
Okay, not really much
of a follower of his?

1983
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:27,367
I would've read him
if I would've saw him,

1984
01:39:27,367 --> 01:39:29,800
- but, I just never..
- Okay, okay.

1985
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:33,300
But Aleister Crowley
is a guy that,

1986
01:39:33,300 --> 01:39:35,300
based on his writings,

1987
01:39:35,300 --> 01:39:37,400
believes in human sacrifice,
doesn't he?

1988
01:39:37,400 --> 01:39:40,967
He also believed
he was God, though, so...

1989
01:39:40,967 --> 01:39:45,100
Okay, and he also
had writings

1990
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:48,800
that indicated that children
were the best type

1991
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:50,633
of human sacrifice,
correct?

1992
01:39:50,633 --> 01:39:52,433
- Yes, sir.
- Okay.

1993
01:39:52,433 --> 01:39:54,600
Davis:
But Aleister Crowley
doesn't have

1994
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,066
any particular significance
to you?

1995
01:39:57,066 --> 01:40:00,600
I know who he is, I've read
a little bit about him,

1996
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:02,667
but I've never
read anything by him.

1997
01:40:02,667 --> 01:40:08,033
Okay. Let me show you
a copy of some documents.

1998
01:40:08,033 --> 01:40:10,233
Do you recognize that?

1999
01:40:10,233 --> 01:40:14,200
- Yes.
- Okay. What is that?

2000
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:19,567
Um, it was this paper I had on,
uh, different alphabets

2001
01:40:19,567 --> 01:40:21,633
for, like, translations
where you could write things

2002
01:40:21,633 --> 01:40:23,200
that nobody can read,

2003
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:24,600
and this was one
of the forms.

2004
01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:27,500
Oh, okay. Well,
where'd you have that at?

2005
01:40:27,500 --> 01:40:29,467
Where did it--
when did you do that,

2006
01:40:29,467 --> 01:40:31,367
write those things out?

2007
01:40:31,367 --> 01:40:33,600
Sometime before
I was arrested, I guess.

2008
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:37,400
Okay, are you sure that
you hadn't done those
since you were arrested,

2009
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:39,433
while you've
been staying in jail?

2010
01:40:39,433 --> 01:40:41,166
I don't know,
I might have.

2011
01:40:41,166 --> 01:40:45,500
Davis:
Well, what-- whose names
are written on that document?

2012
01:40:45,500 --> 01:40:48,667
Mine, Jason's, my son's,

2013
01:40:48,667 --> 01:40:51,133
uh, one that says
Aleister Crowley and--

2014
01:40:51,133 --> 01:40:52,934
Just wait, wait.
Who?

2015
01:40:52,934 --> 01:40:54,467
Aleister Crowley.

2016
01:40:54,467 --> 01:40:56,333
This is a document
that you've written

2017
01:40:56,333 --> 01:40:59,433
while you've been waiting
in jail for trial, right?

2018
01:40:59,433 --> 01:41:00,600
If you say so.

2019
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:02,266
Well, you wrote it,
correct?

2020
01:41:02,266 --> 01:41:03,800
- That's your writing?
-  Mm-hmm.

2021
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:05,033
Okay.

2022
01:41:05,033 --> 01:41:06,667
You recall
when you wrote it?

2023
01:41:06,667 --> 01:41:08,600
Not really.

2024
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:12,400
Well, what I'm gonna
ask you is that this
Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols,

2025
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:15,900
your son,
he wasn't born until after you
were placed in jail, correct?

2026
01:41:15,900 --> 01:41:17,233
- Yes.
- Okay.

2027
01:41:17,233 --> 01:41:19,900
So if you got his name
listed on this document,

2028
01:41:19,900 --> 01:41:22,633
then this document
had to be generated
after he was born, right?

2029
01:41:22,633 --> 01:41:23,700
Yes.

2030
01:41:23,700 --> 01:41:25,467
Okay, so this is something
you've written

2031
01:41:25,467 --> 01:41:28,400
since you've been sitting
in here in jail waiting
for trial.

2032
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:29,800
Yes.

2033
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,600
And what you were doing
was writing out various names

2034
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:35,066
in different-type alphabets,
correct?

2035
01:41:35,066 --> 01:41:38,066
From the way it looks here,
I was practicing,
trying to memorize 'em.

2036
01:41:38,066 --> 01:41:41,200
Okay, and one of the names
that you picked out
to write about

2037
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:43,834
was this fellow named
Aleister Crowley, correct?

2038
01:41:43,834 --> 01:41:45,533
- Mm-hmm.
- Is that just--

2039
01:41:45,533 --> 01:41:49,433
just a total coincidence
you just pulled his name
out of the air?

2040
01:41:49,433 --> 01:41:52,467
No, it's just the same book
that I had with this,

2041
01:41:52,467 --> 01:41:56,967
the different alphabets
in it, it also had stuff
about him in it.

2042
01:41:56,967 --> 01:42:00,033
Well, did you have the book
out there at the time
you were doing this?

2043
01:42:00,033 --> 01:42:03,100
Mm-mmm, this is was just from
what I remembered myself
where I was practicing,

2044
01:42:03,100 --> 01:42:05,767
trying to memorize,
get it all in my head or--

2045
01:42:05,767 --> 01:42:07,567
So-so you were
going over it,

2046
01:42:07,567 --> 01:42:09,233
and working on it
in your head,

2047
01:42:09,233 --> 01:42:12,166
and at that point
in time...

2048
01:42:12,166 --> 01:42:14,433
you write all this down
from memory?

2049
01:42:14,433 --> 01:42:15,800
Mm-hmm.

2050
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:17,400
Davis:
The people that
are listed on here,

2051
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:19,767
you've got your name
on here, right?

2052
01:42:19,767 --> 01:42:23,867
- Damien: Mm-hmm.
- And then Jason Baldwin, which
is your best friend, right?

2053
01:42:23,867 --> 01:42:26,433
And then you got
Damien Seth Ezeriah Echols.

2054
01:42:26,433 --> 01:42:28,400
- That's your son?
- Damien: Yes, it is.

2055
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:31,400
Davis: Okay, and then
the only other name
on this document

2056
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:33,934
besides yourself,
your best friend,

2057
01:42:33,934 --> 01:42:36,934
and your son,
is Aleister Crowley, correct?

2058
01:42:36,934 --> 01:42:38,533
Yes, sir.

2059
01:42:38,533 --> 01:42:41,900
I believe this witness
has requested not
to be photographed.

2060
01:42:41,900 --> 01:42:44,166
That's correct,
Your Honor.

2061
01:42:44,166 --> 01:42:46,300
( coughing )

2062
01:42:53,567 --> 01:42:55,900
Would you state your name
for the jury?

2063
01:42:55,900 --> 01:42:57,500
Christie:
Christie Ann Bickle.

2064
01:42:57,500 --> 01:43:01,767
Okay, and do like you
just did and speak up
as best you can.

2065
01:43:01,767 --> 01:43:03,300
Okay, Christie?

2066
01:43:03,300 --> 01:43:05,667
- Okay.
- Are you nervous?

2067
01:43:05,667 --> 01:43:07,867
- Christie: Yes.
- John Fogelman : All right.

2068
01:43:07,867 --> 01:43:10,567
Okay, did you hear
somebody say something

2069
01:43:10,567 --> 01:43:12,967
about the murder
of the three little boys?

2070
01:43:12,967 --> 01:43:14,633
Christie:
Yes, sir. I heard, um,

2071
01:43:14,633 --> 01:43:17,100
Damien Echols say that
he'd killed the three boys.

2072
01:43:17,100 --> 01:43:18,400
Fogelman :
Where were you?

2073
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:20,433
Was he saying that to you
or what were you doing?

2074
01:43:20,433 --> 01:43:22,667
Christie: I was walking
by with my friend.

2075
01:43:25,533 --> 01:43:28,467
( coughing )

2076
01:43:30,900 --> 01:43:32,266
Christie,
I'm Scott Davidson

2077
01:43:32,266 --> 01:43:34,567
and I've got a couple of
questions to ask you too, okay?

2078
01:43:34,567 --> 01:43:36,233
- Okay.
- Okay.

2079
01:43:36,233 --> 01:43:38,633
Um, first of all, uh,

2080
01:43:38,633 --> 01:43:40,967
do you remember what day
this was that you heard this?

2081
01:43:40,967 --> 01:43:42,800
No, sir.

2082
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:43,934
Davidson:
That's the first time

2083
01:43:43,934 --> 01:43:44,934
you'd ever seen him
in your life.

2084
01:43:44,934 --> 01:43:45,934
Christie:
Yes, sir.

2085
01:43:45,934 --> 01:43:47,500
Davidson:
What did he say before

2086
01:43:47,500 --> 01:43:50,333
you say that he said
he killed those three boys?

2087
01:43:50,333 --> 01:43:52,000
What'd he say before that?

2088
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:54,433
Christie:
I don't know.

2089
01:43:54,433 --> 01:43:56,100
Davidson:
What'd he say after that?

2090
01:43:56,100 --> 01:43:57,600
I don't know.

2091
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:00,000
Davidson:
And how-- how close
were you to him?

2092
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:01,800
I wasn't close.

2093
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:04,367
- Davidson: Did he scream it?
- Christie: I don't know.

2094
01:44:04,367 --> 01:44:05,834
- Davidson: Did he yell it?
- Christie: I don't know.

2095
01:44:07,700 --> 01:44:09,233
Davidson:
Call your next witness.

2096
01:44:09,233 --> 01:44:11,233
Man:
Call Jodie Medford.

2097
01:44:11,233 --> 01:44:12,600
Burnett:
All right, again,

2098
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,667
this witness has requested
not to be photographed.

2099
01:44:15,667 --> 01:44:20,800
Jodie, I want to direct
your attention to May of 1993,

2100
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,600
after the murders
of the three little boys.

2101
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:26,767
Did you have occasion to be
at the softball field

2102
01:44:26,767 --> 01:44:30,633
and-and, uh, hear a comment
in regard to the murders?

2103
01:44:30,633 --> 01:44:32,567
- Jodie Medford: Yes, sir.
- Davidson: All right.

2104
01:44:32,567 --> 01:44:34,800
Tell the jury,
uh, first--

2105
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,333
tell the jury first
what you heard.

2106
01:44:37,333 --> 01:44:40,567
Jodie: He said,
"I killed the little boys
and before I turn myself in

2107
01:44:40,567 --> 01:44:42,066
that I'm gonna
kill two more,

2108
01:44:42,066 --> 01:44:44,200
and I already had
one of 'em picked out."

2109
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:46,734
Davidson: You didn't
recognize anybody else
that was with him?

2110
01:44:46,734 --> 01:44:49,867
Um, I saw
Jason Baldwin there.

2111
01:44:49,867 --> 01:44:53,233
Had you heard people talking
about Damien before this?

2112
01:44:53,233 --> 01:44:55,734
Yes, sir.

2113
01:44:55,734 --> 01:44:58,200
Did you think...

2114
01:44:58,200 --> 01:45:00,233
did you think he was
kind of weird or something?

2115
01:45:00,233 --> 01:45:02,800
Yes, sir, 'cause he
was dressed all in black,

2116
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:07,400
and his hair was jet black
and long, and shaved
on the side.

2117
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:10,333
Margaret, two teenage girls
took the stand this morning,

2118
01:45:10,333 --> 01:45:13,000
and they said they heard
Damien Echols confess
to the murders

2119
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,567
of three eight-year-old boys
last May.

2120
01:45:15,567 --> 01:45:19,767
One of the girls said
she overheard Damien Echols
say, "I killed the three boys,

2121
01:45:19,767 --> 01:45:21,400
and I'm going
to kill two more.

2122
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:23,333
I already have one
picked out."

2123
01:45:23,333 --> 01:45:26,500
Later in the afternoon,
when the defense began
presenting its witnesses,

2124
01:45:26,500 --> 01:45:28,400
Damien Echols himself
took the stand.

2125
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:30,367
He said he thought
the girls were lying

2126
01:45:30,367 --> 01:45:32,400
and they were making up
those statements.

2127
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:34,700
He also said he did
not practice Satanism

2128
01:45:34,700 --> 01:45:36,800
and denied any involvement
in the murders

2129
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:39,100
of Chris Byers, Michael Moore,
and Stevie Branch.

2130
01:45:48,567 --> 01:45:51,700
Were you working
at Bojangles restaurant

2131
01:45:51,700 --> 01:45:55,300
on the evening
of May 5th of 1993?

2132
01:45:55,300 --> 01:45:56,600
Yes, sir.

2133
01:45:56,600 --> 01:45:58,467
Could you tell us
what happened?

2134
01:45:58,467 --> 01:46:01,834
King:
Well, it was about 9:30
at night, uh...

2135
01:46:01,834 --> 01:46:05,166
I found a black gentleman
sitting in the women's restroom
on the commode,

2136
01:46:05,166 --> 01:46:08,967
and there was blood
dripping off of his forearm.

2137
01:46:08,967 --> 01:46:11,367
But he had mud
on his feet

2138
01:46:11,367 --> 01:46:14,734
and he seemed to be disarrayed
when I talked to him.

2139
01:46:14,734 --> 01:46:16,000
I called the police then.

2140
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:17,467
Davidson:
What happened then?

2141
01:46:17,467 --> 01:46:18,734
King:
It was a female officer

2142
01:46:18,734 --> 01:46:20,600
for the West Memphis
Police Department,

2143
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:23,600
and, uh, she pulled on the light
and I saw her coming

2144
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:26,767
so I went up to the front door,
but she kept coming around.

2145
01:46:26,767 --> 01:46:28,433
She went to
the drive-through window.

2146
01:46:28,433 --> 01:46:30,700
Davidson:
So you did not
go in the restaurant.

2147
01:46:30,700 --> 01:46:32,166
No, sir,
I did not.

2148
01:46:32,166 --> 01:46:34,533
Did you ever find this
bleeding black man?

2149
01:46:34,533 --> 01:46:35,867
No, sir,
I did not.

2150
01:46:35,867 --> 01:46:39,133
You have a report that you made
regarding this incident?

2151
01:46:39,133 --> 01:46:41,166
No, sir,
I do not.

2152
01:46:41,166 --> 01:46:42,600
Robin Wadley:
And you're out looking
for some boys

2153
01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:43,800
and you're out in that area

2154
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:45,567
and you hear about someone
bleeding, did that--

2155
01:46:45,567 --> 01:46:47,266
did anything go off
in your mind thinking

2156
01:46:47,266 --> 01:46:48,900
that something may be
going on?

2157
01:46:48,900 --> 01:46:50,233
Meek:
Okay, first of all,
you got to understand

2158
01:46:50,233 --> 01:46:51,767
it was a different area
I went to.

2159
01:46:51,767 --> 01:46:53,333
It was a different ward.

2160
01:46:53,333 --> 01:46:55,934
I did not connect
the two at all.

2161
01:46:55,934 --> 01:46:58,367
Well, patrolman, it may
have been outside your ward,

2162
01:46:58,367 --> 01:47:01,400
but distance-wise between
the area where you were looking

2163
01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:02,934
and where
this restaurant was,

2164
01:47:02,934 --> 01:47:04,834
it's not a long distance,
is it?

2165
01:47:04,834 --> 01:47:06,200
No, sir.
It's really not.

2166
01:47:06,200 --> 01:47:07,767
Okay.

2167
01:47:07,767 --> 01:47:10,800
Davidson:
Did any other officer
come out there that evening?

2168
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:12,266
Not that evening.

2169
01:47:12,266 --> 01:47:16,333
Uh, were you working
on the day of May 6th of 1993?

2170
01:47:16,333 --> 01:47:17,400
Yes, sir.

2171
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:18,567
Two detectives came out,

2172
01:47:18,567 --> 01:47:21,633
and they took a report
as far as what I had seen.

2173
01:47:21,633 --> 01:47:23,734
Uh, description
of the gentleman

2174
01:47:23,734 --> 01:47:26,767
and then they took
blood scrapings off the wall.

2175
01:47:26,767 --> 01:47:28,567
All right, Detective Ridge,
what is the date

2176
01:47:28,567 --> 01:47:30,567
that you sent
the blood scrapings off

2177
01:47:30,567 --> 01:47:32,333
to the crime lab
to be analyzed?

2178
01:47:32,333 --> 01:47:34,233
Detective Bryn Rudge:
They were never sent.

2179
01:47:34,233 --> 01:47:36,700
- They were never sent?
- That's correct.

2180
01:47:36,700 --> 01:47:39,567
All right, where are
the blood samples
at this time?

2181
01:47:39,567 --> 01:47:40,900
I don't know, sir.
They're lost.

2182
01:47:40,900 --> 01:47:42,533
They're lost?

2183
01:47:42,533 --> 01:47:45,367
Yes, sir, that's my mistake.
I lost a piece of evidence.

2184
01:47:48,500 --> 01:47:50,967
( chatter in background )

2185
01:47:56,367 --> 01:48:02,300
Most of the time, he came up
with the stupid ideas.

2186
01:48:02,300 --> 01:48:04,367
I guess I influenced him

2187
01:48:04,367 --> 01:48:06,934
about as much
as he influenced me, I guess.

2188
01:48:06,934 --> 01:48:09,934
Most of the time,
we didn't really set out
to do anything in particular.

2189
01:48:09,934 --> 01:48:14,600
We just started hanging around,
whatever happened,

2190
01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:17,800
just usually happened.

2191
01:48:17,800 --> 01:48:21,000
Sometimes good,
sometimes bad.

2192
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:22,834
We were just sitting on
the couch watching TV

2193
01:48:22,834 --> 01:48:24,333
the night
we were arrested.

2194
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:30,900
( chuckles )
Pigs busted in,

2195
01:48:30,900 --> 01:48:32,800
started running
all over the house.

2196
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:35,333
We tried to hide in the bedroom
when the cops first came,

2197
01:48:35,333 --> 01:48:36,767
but they wouldn't leave.

2198
01:48:36,767 --> 01:48:40,066
We were in the bedroom,
turned the light off.

2199
01:48:40,066 --> 01:48:41,300
Maybe they'll go away.

2200
01:48:41,300 --> 01:48:42,834
"I know you're in there.
Open up."

2201
01:48:42,834 --> 01:48:44,834
( chuckles )

2202
01:48:44,834 --> 01:48:48,200
We saw the lights go out.

2203
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:49,567
And Domini turned them
back on.

2204
01:48:49,567 --> 01:48:51,200
- Turned them back--
- No, it was my sister.

2205
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:52,100
Oh.

2206
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:12,000
Robin Wadley: Well,
the interesting thing
about it is,

2207
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:14,266
is that the-the-the one knife
that we know

2208
01:49:14,266 --> 01:49:17,667
somebody owns...
is the Byers knife.

2209
01:49:17,667 --> 01:49:19,033
We know he owns that knife.

2210
01:49:19,033 --> 01:49:20,367
Dr. James Raiscot:
He's got the motive,

2211
01:49:20,367 --> 01:49:23,166
his son,
who he's upset with,

2212
01:49:23,166 --> 01:49:25,300
his son was the only
one mutilated.

2213
01:49:25,300 --> 01:49:27,533
The other two
weren't mutilated.

2214
01:49:27,533 --> 01:49:31,133
He's-he's-he's got knowledge
about the area,

2215
01:49:31,133 --> 01:49:34,000
he knows when the search
is over with,

2216
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,800
he's big enough that he can
carry the boys there

2217
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:38,300
and throw them in.

2218
01:49:38,300 --> 01:49:41,934
He's a jeweler,
he's precise enough to have--

2219
01:49:41,934 --> 01:49:44,934
to have committed
that mutilation.

2220
01:49:44,934 --> 01:49:47,600
All of the pieces
fit together

2221
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:51,300
with somebody
in a different location

2222
01:49:51,300 --> 01:49:53,800
killing the boys
in a different location.

2223
01:49:53,800 --> 01:49:56,367
Because there's
no mosquito bites on them.

2224
01:49:56,367 --> 01:50:00,333
So we know that after the boys
were killed, and during,

2225
01:50:00,333 --> 01:50:02,367
they weren't outside.

2226
01:50:02,367 --> 01:50:03,734
They had to be inside

2227
01:50:03,734 --> 01:50:05,633
'cause there's
no mosquito bites on them.

2228
01:50:05,633 --> 01:50:09,367
So that means they were carried
from a death scene someplace,

2229
01:50:09,367 --> 01:50:12,367
unconscious, and brought
down to the river.

2230
01:50:12,367 --> 01:50:15,600
And they had to be killed
shortly before they were
brought down there

2231
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:18,467
because they all died within
a short period of time.

2232
01:50:18,467 --> 01:50:20,367
So after they were
bled to death,

2233
01:50:20,367 --> 01:50:23,767
after they were bludgeoned
and unconscious,

2234
01:50:23,767 --> 01:50:25,867
somebody had
to take those three,

2235
01:50:25,867 --> 01:50:28,400
take them to the scene,
and dump them.

2236
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:31,700
In order to do that, you gotta
be physically strong enough

2237
01:50:31,700 --> 01:50:34,333
to carry a fifty-
to sixty-year-old

2238
01:50:34,333 --> 01:50:38,800
unconscious kid,
who's hogtied.

2239
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:41,433
Ja-- Jason couldn't
have done it.

2240
01:50:41,433 --> 01:50:44,333
In his best day, he couldn't
carry a little baby,

2241
01:50:44,333 --> 01:50:45,734
with those little
skinny arms of his.

2242
01:50:45,734 --> 01:50:48,166
So when we look
at this whole thing,

2243
01:50:48,166 --> 01:50:51,834
all the pieces that
they tried to put together,

2244
01:50:51,834 --> 01:50:55,100
none of it fits
with Jason,

2245
01:50:55,100 --> 01:50:59,600
and just about all of it fits
towards a person like Byers.

2246
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:01,467
Fogelman :
When did you receive
that knife?

2247
01:51:01,467 --> 01:51:05,066
On the... I believe
it was on the 8th.

2248
01:51:05,066 --> 01:51:06,667
I've got Jan--

2249
01:51:06,667 --> 01:51:10,066
It's hard to make this out.
January the 8th, 1994.

2250
01:51:10,066 --> 01:51:15,266
All right, and, who did
you receive this knife from?

2251
01:51:15,266 --> 01:51:18,400
I received it from, uh...

2252
01:51:19,867 --> 01:51:21,867
I mean, how did I actually
receive it?

2253
01:51:21,867 --> 01:51:24,233
No, who did you receive
the knife from?

2254
01:51:24,233 --> 01:51:26,633
I received it from, uh,

2255
01:51:26,633 --> 01:51:31,467
Joe and the people
with HBO productions.

2256
01:51:31,467 --> 01:51:34,633
Okay, Bruce and...

2257
01:51:34,633 --> 01:51:37,467
- Gitchell: Bruce and Joe.
- The other one, wherever
he is. All right.

2258
01:51:37,467 --> 01:51:40,300
Fogelman :
Upon receiving that knife,
what did you do with it?

2259
01:51:40,300 --> 01:51:42,633
Gitchell:
I saw what I thought to be

2260
01:51:42,633 --> 01:51:44,967
some type of substance
on the knife.

2261
01:51:44,967 --> 01:51:47,300
And, actually, I did
not know what it was.

2262
01:51:47,300 --> 01:51:51,333
I, in turn, sent this knife
to Genetic Design.

2263
01:51:51,333 --> 01:51:54,467
When the knife was received
by your firm,

2264
01:51:54,467 --> 01:51:58,633
did you or your lab run tests
on that particular knife?

2265
01:51:58,633 --> 01:52:03,000
There was a small amount
of what appeared to be blood,

2266
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:07,233
um, that was dried, or tissue,
in a crevice on the knife

2267
01:52:07,233 --> 01:52:09,100
where the knife folds
when it locks.

2268
01:52:09,100 --> 01:52:11,000
The results of the tests
showed us

2269
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:15,100
that, um, there was
DNA present on the knife,

2270
01:52:15,100 --> 01:52:19,633
and that we were able
to get a type using a test

2271
01:52:19,633 --> 01:52:21,867
called HLA BQ Alpha.

2272
01:52:21,867 --> 01:52:24,700
And Mr. Byers had
the same type

2273
01:52:24,700 --> 01:52:27,633
that was detected from
the specimen from the knife.

2274
01:52:27,633 --> 01:52:33,266
Okay, and what was
the BQ Alpha type
for Christopher Byers?

2275
01:52:33,266 --> 01:52:34,867
It was also the same type.

2276
01:52:34,867 --> 01:52:38,433
So, the blood
on the knife, and...

2277
01:52:39,600 --> 01:52:41,500
Christopher Byers' blood

2278
01:52:41,500 --> 01:52:44,266
and John Mark Byers' blood
all had the same type.

2279
01:52:44,266 --> 01:52:45,367
Correct.

2280
01:52:56,166 --> 01:53:00,166
Let me go ahead
and... open it.

2281
01:53:00,166 --> 01:53:01,867
Judge, if I can approach
the witness.

2282
01:53:01,867 --> 01:53:03,166
Burnett:
All right.

2283
01:53:03,166 --> 01:53:06,800
I want you to take a good look
at that knife.

2284
01:53:12,734 --> 01:53:15,700
And I will call that
for identification purposes

2285
01:53:15,700 --> 01:53:19,000
the John Mark Byers knife.

2286
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:24,100
Doctor, did you
make the comparison
with this knife, E-6,

2287
01:53:24,100 --> 01:53:28,367
and-- and compared that
with some of the wounds that
you found on Chris Byers?

2288
01:53:28,367 --> 01:53:29,467
Uh, yes I did.

2289
01:53:29,467 --> 01:53:31,233
All right,
does that knife

2290
01:53:31,233 --> 01:53:33,000
appear to be
a serrated knife?

2291
01:53:33,000 --> 01:53:34,934
Yes, this is
a serrated knife.

2292
01:53:34,934 --> 01:53:36,800
Do you have an opinion
if some of the wounds

2293
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:39,000
that you've found
on Chris Byers

2294
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:41,767
were consistent with wounds
which would have been caused

2295
01:53:41,767 --> 01:53:43,700
by that type
of serrated knife?

2296
01:53:43,700 --> 01:53:48,533
Well, some of the wounds
that have the smaller
serrated patterns, um,

2297
01:53:48,533 --> 01:53:54,500
could have been inflicted
with a knife having
this type of serration.

2298
01:53:54,500 --> 01:53:57,400
Man:
How do you think this
has gone over so far

2299
01:53:57,400 --> 01:53:59,800
on the Mark Byers aspect?

2300
01:53:59,800 --> 01:54:02,934
Obviously we thought long
and hard about mentioning

2301
01:54:02,934 --> 01:54:06,433
a father
as a possible suspect.

2302
01:54:06,433 --> 01:54:07,734
I hate having to do that,

2303
01:54:07,734 --> 01:54:10,000
but the way
the circumstances are...

2304
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:13,900
it's just coming out whether
we really want it to or not.

2305
01:54:13,900 --> 01:54:15,266
I mean, um...

2306
01:54:15,266 --> 01:54:18,233
You know, we had suspicions
even before the knife showed up.

2307
01:54:18,233 --> 01:54:20,934
Do you think anybody
realizes the reason

2308
01:54:20,934 --> 01:54:23,233
for the three-day delay
in Jessie's trial

2309
01:54:23,233 --> 01:54:25,033
was waiting on that...

2310
01:54:26,633 --> 01:54:28,633
the DNA test to come back
on that Byers knife?

2311
01:54:28,633 --> 01:54:29,700
Ron Lax:
I doubt it.

2312
01:54:29,700 --> 01:54:32,100
And even after
the results came back

2313
01:54:32,100 --> 01:54:34,100
and it showed that it
could be Mark's blood

2314
01:54:34,100 --> 01:54:36,367
as well as Chris's blood,

2315
01:54:36,367 --> 01:54:38,800
that doesn't alleviate
the fact

2316
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:43,734
that he said no one had ever
cut themself on the knife,

2317
01:54:43,734 --> 01:54:45,900
and it shouldn't have
had blood on it at all.

2318
01:54:45,900 --> 01:54:47,767
Well, do you think
the theory,

2319
01:54:47,767 --> 01:54:50,033
or that the argument
at least that,

2320
01:54:50,033 --> 01:54:52,367
it wasn't that the blood
was found on the blade,

2321
01:54:52,367 --> 01:54:53,767
which could be
easily wiped off,

2322
01:54:53,767 --> 01:54:55,100
but it was back in the hinges

2323
01:54:55,100 --> 01:54:57,333
that you normally
wouldn't think,

2324
01:54:57,333 --> 01:54:59,433
if you were wiping off
the blood you wouldn't think

2325
01:54:59,433 --> 01:55:01,100
the blood would be
inside the hinges,

2326
01:55:01,100 --> 01:55:03,000
and that's where they found
that particular blood.

2327
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:06,433
How do we get that in,
just ask Gitchell?

2328
01:55:06,433 --> 01:55:09,367
Ask Byers. I mean, we could
put Byers up on the stand.

2329
01:55:09,367 --> 01:55:11,367
Davidson:
I think the jury
expects to see him now.

2330
01:55:11,367 --> 01:55:12,734
They wanna see
him up there,

2331
01:55:12,734 --> 01:55:14,900
they wanna see
what he has to say,
don't you think so?

2332
01:55:14,900 --> 01:55:16,633
I think so, yes.

2333
01:55:16,633 --> 01:55:21,266
Mr. Byers, I need to ask
you about defense
exhibit number E-6,

2334
01:55:21,266 --> 01:55:25,767
this particular folding
lock-blade Kershaw knife.

2335
01:55:25,767 --> 01:55:27,700
If I could approach
the witness, Your Honor.

2336
01:55:27,700 --> 01:55:29,600
Burnett: Yes.

2337
01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:32,400
Price:
Take a look
at that knife, please.

2338
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:35,066
( coughing )

2339
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:43,200
Had that knife
ever been used before?

2340
01:55:44,867 --> 01:55:46,900
Used for what?

2341
01:55:46,900 --> 01:55:49,467
Used for any purpose?

2342
01:55:49,467 --> 01:55:53,433
I've had... trim
your toenails with it.

2343
01:55:53,433 --> 01:55:56,800
I had attempted to trim

2344
01:55:56,800 --> 01:56:00,066
on some venison that I had.

2345
01:56:00,066 --> 01:56:03,166
- I--
- You attempted to trim
on some venison.

2346
01:56:03,166 --> 01:56:06,000
When was it you attempted
to trim on some venison?

2347
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:09,166
Somewhere time
the Thanksgiving holidays.

2348
01:56:09,166 --> 01:56:11,600
Do you recall being asked
on January the 26th,

2349
01:56:11,600 --> 01:56:15,333
this is on page three,
by Inspector Gitchell,

2350
01:56:15,333 --> 01:56:19,266
had you ever taken that knife
hunting or used it recently.

2351
01:56:19,266 --> 01:56:22,266
Do you remember
being asked that question
by Inspector Gitchell?

2352
01:56:22,266 --> 01:56:25,367
Specifically, no, sir,
he asked me a lot of questions.

2353
01:56:25,367 --> 01:56:27,934
All right, do you remember
giving the answer,

2354
01:56:27,934 --> 01:56:31,967
"No, that knife
had not been used at all.

2355
01:56:31,967 --> 01:56:35,333
It had just been kept up,
put in my dresser,

2356
01:56:35,333 --> 01:56:38,000
and I didn't use it,
and the reason why

2357
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:40,233
was because
of the serrated edges."

2358
01:56:40,233 --> 01:56:42,233
Do you recall giving
that answer

2359
01:56:42,233 --> 01:56:45,734
to Inspector Gitchell
on the 26th?

2360
01:56:45,734 --> 01:56:49,767
No, sir, don't recall
giving him that exact answer.

2361
01:56:49,767 --> 01:56:52,367
I'm sure his question
wouldn't have been asked

2362
01:56:52,367 --> 01:56:53,967
exactly like
your question was--

2363
01:56:53,967 --> 01:56:55,934
All right, did Gitchell
tell you,

2364
01:56:55,934 --> 01:56:58,300
"Let me explain
a problem we had,

2365
01:56:58,300 --> 01:57:00,367
and you need
to answer this for me.

2366
01:57:00,367 --> 01:57:02,166
We have found blood
on this knife."

2367
01:57:02,166 --> 01:57:04,433
Did Gitchell ask you
that question?

2368
01:57:04,433 --> 01:57:07,166
I don't remember
if he said there was or not.

2369
01:57:07,166 --> 01:57:09,100
Price:
Did you tell Gitchell
you had no idea

2370
01:57:09,100 --> 01:57:11,200
how Chris's blood
could be on that knife?

2371
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:13,834
Mark:
Yes, sir, I would
not have any idea.

2372
01:57:13,834 --> 01:57:15,600
If his blood was
on that knife,

2373
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:17,867
I would not know
how it got there.

2374
01:57:17,867 --> 01:57:22,200
Did you have any idea how
human blood was on that knife?

2375
01:57:22,200 --> 01:57:23,734
Well, yes,
I would have an idea.

2376
01:57:23,734 --> 01:57:25,433
I cut my thumb.

2377
01:57:25,433 --> 01:57:26,600
All right.

2378
01:57:26,600 --> 01:57:29,633
Is it true that you never
told Inspector Gitchell

2379
01:57:29,633 --> 01:57:32,734
on January 26th
that you ever cut your thumb

2380
01:57:32,734 --> 01:57:35,066
with that particular knife,
did you?

2381
01:57:35,066 --> 01:57:36,300
Yes, sir, it seems like

2382
01:57:36,300 --> 01:57:38,734
during the course of the day,
I did tell him that.

2383
01:57:38,734 --> 01:57:42,633
Was that during the taped
conversation or was that after?

2384
01:57:42,633 --> 01:57:44,533
- I don't remember.
- Okay.

2385
01:57:44,533 --> 01:57:46,600
Price:
On the top of page eight,

2386
01:57:46,600 --> 01:57:49,000
do you recall being asked
the question,

2387
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:50,300
"I have no idea,

2388
01:57:50,300 --> 01:57:54,967
no idea how it could have
any human blood on it."

2389
01:57:54,967 --> 01:57:57,300
- You recall
giving that answer?
- Yes, sir.

2390
01:57:57,300 --> 01:57:59,000
Then do you recall stating,

2391
01:57:59,000 --> 01:58:01,900
"I don't even remember
nicking myself with it,

2392
01:58:01,900 --> 01:58:04,133
cutting the dinner meat
or anything."

2393
01:58:04,133 --> 01:58:05,500
Is that the answer
you gave?

2394
01:58:05,500 --> 01:58:06,834
- Yes, sir.
- And is that the truth?

2395
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:11,200
I-- at the time,
when he was questioning me,

2396
01:58:11,200 --> 01:58:14,000
I didn't re-- I mean,
I might not have remembered.

2397
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:18,934
We were getting ready
to go into a trial, uh...

2398
01:58:18,934 --> 01:58:21,200
Did you remember,
on this date,

2399
01:58:21,200 --> 01:58:24,934
cutting yourself
with the venison
or not cutting yourself?

2400
01:58:24,934 --> 01:58:26,367
The date that
Gary questioned--

2401
01:58:26,367 --> 01:58:28,266
The date that Gary
questioned, yes, sir.

2402
01:58:28,266 --> 01:58:32,033
I might not have
remembered it at that time
when he was questioning me,

2403
01:58:32,033 --> 01:58:34,734
but I could have remembered it
later on in the day

2404
01:58:34,734 --> 01:58:38,200
- and talked to him about it.
- Ah, okay.

2405
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:42,533
Earlier that afternoon,
had you given Chris a whipping?

2406
01:58:42,533 --> 01:58:45,367
Approximately around 5:30.

2407
01:58:45,367 --> 01:58:48,300
This was about 5:30
and was-- was this with a belt?

2408
01:58:48,300 --> 01:58:49,300
Yes, sir.

2409
01:58:49,300 --> 01:58:50,800
Okay, approximately
how many times

2410
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:52,500
did you hit him
with the belt?

2411
01:58:52,500 --> 01:58:55,567
I spanked him
two or three times.

2412
01:58:55,567 --> 01:58:58,000
And on what part of the body
did you spank him?

2413
01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:00,700
It would have been
just on his behind.

2414
01:59:00,700 --> 01:59:02,900
Okay, was his, uh,
was he wearing his pants

2415
01:59:02,900 --> 01:59:04,400
or did you have
to pull his pants down?

2416
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:06,133
No, he had on blue jeans.

2417
01:59:06,133 --> 01:59:08,633
Okay.

2418
01:59:08,633 --> 01:59:10,133
( camera shutters clicking )

2419
01:59:10,133 --> 01:59:11,867
Reporter:
Byers, the judge back there

2420
01:59:11,867 --> 01:59:14,333
during that last recess,
before you were recalled,

2421
01:59:14,333 --> 01:59:16,867
says that you have
a brain tumor,

2422
01:59:16,867 --> 01:59:18,200
and you're being treated.

2423
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:21,433
Can you-- do you want to talk
about that? Is it true?

2424
01:59:21,433 --> 01:59:23,667
It's been rumored
since Corning.

2425
01:59:23,667 --> 01:59:25,667
Yes, I have a brain tumor.

2426
01:59:25,667 --> 01:59:27,333
And you're being treated.

2427
01:59:27,333 --> 01:59:30,900
Yes, I'm being treated
for it.

2428
01:59:30,900 --> 01:59:32,467
Reporter
I need to ask you
one question,

2429
01:59:32,467 --> 01:59:34,500
and-and I hope
you won't get angry

2430
01:59:34,500 --> 01:59:37,734
but has this-- this--
even the suggestion

2431
01:59:37,734 --> 01:59:40,233
that you may have had
something to do

2432
01:59:40,233 --> 01:59:41,767
with the murders
of these boys

2433
01:59:41,767 --> 01:59:46,033
caused any problems
within your-- your family,

2434
01:59:46,033 --> 01:59:49,300
or with any of
the other victims' families?

2435
01:59:49,300 --> 01:59:52,000
- Melissa Byers: No.
- They all...

2436
01:59:52,000 --> 01:59:54,166
They all know
the truth, and no.

2437
01:59:57,200 --> 01:59:59,600
Reporter
Do you have anything to do
with these boys' deaths?

2438
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:01,567
No more than you did.

2439
02:00:01,567 --> 02:00:03,967
Reporter
Fogelman says you're
buying a new house.

2440
02:00:03,967 --> 02:00:05,767
Is that why you're leaving
West Memphis?

2441
02:00:05,767 --> 02:00:07,900
- Mark: I didn't say that.
- Fogelman did this morning.

2442
02:00:07,900 --> 02:00:10,233
Reporter
Yeah, he said that's why
you were leaving.

2443
02:00:10,233 --> 02:00:11,533
You know,
we might try to move.

2444
02:00:11,533 --> 02:00:13,767
Reporter
Out of West Memphis?

2445
02:00:13,767 --> 02:00:17,867
Well, somewhere. I mean,
you would probably wanna move.

2446
02:00:17,867 --> 02:00:20,233
- You know.
- Did you say where
you're going to move?

2447
02:00:20,233 --> 02:00:21,633
- Do you want to say?
- No.

2448
02:00:21,633 --> 02:00:23,700
Melissa:
Let me ask you a question,
Mr. Sullivan,

2449
02:00:23,700 --> 02:00:26,266
would you want to live in
a house that your baby died

2450
02:00:26,266 --> 02:00:28,367
in less than three-fourths
of a mile from it?

2451
02:00:28,367 --> 02:00:29,934
- Reporter: I wouldn't, no.
- Mike: No? Okay.

2452
02:00:29,934 --> 02:00:31,934
That answers
the question.
Come on.

2453
02:00:31,934 --> 02:00:34,166
Reporter:
You're talking about your
whole family though, right?

2454
02:00:34,166 --> 02:00:35,567
You're not just talking
about you.

2455
02:00:35,567 --> 02:00:37,500
Mike:
You wouldn't move
and leave your wife

2456
02:00:37,500 --> 02:00:39,333
and children somewhere,
would you?

2457
02:00:39,333 --> 02:00:41,233
Reporter:
Not if we were gonna
stay together, no.

2458
02:00:41,233 --> 02:00:43,967
Mark:
Okay. ( chuckles )

2459
02:00:43,967 --> 02:00:46,500
I mean, some of the questions
you ask are kind of ridiculous.

2460
02:00:46,500 --> 02:00:48,767
You know,
I know you're not asking,

2461
02:00:48,767 --> 02:00:50,500
but some of them
are kind of...

2462
02:00:50,500 --> 02:00:52,367
odd or strange
or different

2463
02:00:52,367 --> 02:00:54,300
or, you know, however you'd
like to comment on them.

2464
02:00:54,300 --> 02:00:55,600
But some of them

2465
02:00:55,600 --> 02:00:57,700
it seems like you'd just use
a little common sense

2466
02:00:57,700 --> 02:01:00,400
and think about
what you would do
or how you would feel.

2467
02:01:00,400 --> 02:01:01,834
Some of the questions
you fellows

2468
02:01:01,834 --> 02:01:03,200
would never have to ask.

2469
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:04,934
- Well the only thing is--
- We have to ask them.

2470
02:01:04,934 --> 02:01:07,867
We have to ask them,
so we can't quote ourselves.
We have to...

2471
02:01:07,867 --> 02:01:10,767
I know, but then a lot of times
things are printed in the paper

2472
02:01:10,767 --> 02:01:14,133
that people did not say,
and the news media,

2473
02:01:14,133 --> 02:01:16,700
and I'm not stating
which individual,

2474
02:01:16,700 --> 02:01:19,066
says they got it
from a confidential informer,

2475
02:01:19,066 --> 02:01:21,600
and you don't have to turn
your confidential informer over

2476
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:23,834
when your confidential informer
is your imagination.

2477
02:01:23,834 --> 02:01:25,133
Well...

2478
02:01:25,133 --> 02:01:26,934
You know, there's a lot
of things that's printed

2479
02:01:26,934 --> 02:01:30,000
in the paper
that people did not say.

2480
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:34,934
But the media has
the rights to print
what they want to print.

2481
02:01:34,934 --> 02:01:37,667
You know,
victims don't have any rights.

2482
02:01:37,667 --> 02:01:40,600
- ( chatter )
- ( shutters clicking )

2483
02:01:50,367 --> 02:01:52,400
( metal detector beeping )

2484
02:01:52,400 --> 02:01:55,433
Now that
I've heard him talk,

2485
02:01:55,433 --> 02:01:57,367
I don't...

2486
02:01:57,367 --> 02:02:00,834
I kinda of had an idea
what he was like
before he talked,

2487
02:02:00,834 --> 02:02:04,467
but after he talked,
he wasn't anything like
I thought he would be.

2488
02:02:04,467 --> 02:02:07,166
Reporter:
How is he?

2489
02:02:07,166 --> 02:02:11,633
I see him now as more like
a human being than I did before.

2490
02:02:11,633 --> 02:02:13,567
Now I see him
as having a personality.

2491
02:02:16,100 --> 02:02:18,767
From a defense standpoint,
I've never been
a defense attorney,

2492
02:02:18,767 --> 02:02:22,300
but to put him
on the witness stand

2493
02:02:22,300 --> 02:02:24,500
sure seemed to be
an awful big gamble.

2494
02:02:24,500 --> 02:02:26,600
And I can't understand
the mind-set that puts you

2495
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:30,100
in the position
where you're willing
to take that gamble.

2496
02:02:30,100 --> 02:02:32,233
Fogelman :
Especially when
you follow it up

2497
02:02:32,233 --> 02:02:36,467
with Mr. Bojangles's
accusations,

2498
02:02:36,467 --> 02:02:38,400
it didn't make any sense.

2499
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:40,166
'Cause it, to me,

2500
02:02:40,166 --> 02:02:41,467
if I were on the jury,

2501
02:02:41,467 --> 02:02:43,834
it would look like just some--
something desperate.

2502
02:02:43,834 --> 02:02:48,667
You know, they're gonna
cast blame on anybody
and everybody they can.

2503
02:02:48,667 --> 02:02:50,967
Of course--
and the defense

2504
02:02:50,967 --> 02:02:53,533
didn't have the guts
to actually ask him,
"Did he do it?"

2505
02:03:05,834 --> 02:03:08,867
The song that I just
really can relate to

2506
02:03:08,867 --> 02:03:11,333
by Metallica,
"The Sanitarium."

2507
02:03:14,333 --> 02:03:15,900
'Cause I feel like
all those times

2508
02:03:15,900 --> 02:03:18,100
that I was in the hospital,
I didn't need it.

2509
02:03:20,200 --> 02:03:22,033
It was just the police,

2510
02:03:22,033 --> 02:03:23,900
another way
for them setting me up

2511
02:03:23,900 --> 02:03:25,934
when they couldn't send me
to prison or something.

2512
02:03:25,934 --> 02:03:27,633
Like, "Well, we'll get him
out of our way

2513
02:03:27,633 --> 02:03:29,533
for a little while by...

2514
02:03:29,533 --> 02:03:31,500
sending him
somewhere else."

2515
02:03:34,100 --> 02:03:35,767
Hmm.

2516
02:03:36,867 --> 02:03:38,934
I like Metallica because,

2517
02:03:38,934 --> 02:03:42,934
well, all hard music
like that because...

2518
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:47,934
it, like, gives me
an adrenaline rush and...

2519
02:03:50,100 --> 02:03:51,533
makes me feel more alive.

2520
02:03:52,633 --> 02:03:54,734
( music playing )

2521
02:04:05,900 --> 02:04:08,233
( footsteps clomping )

2522
02:04:24,500 --> 02:04:27,000
( keys jingling )

2523
02:04:37,533 --> 02:04:40,000
( handcuffs jingling )

2524
02:04:43,166 --> 02:04:44,400
( door slams loudly )

2525
02:04:51,533 --> 02:04:53,333
( door slams loudly )

2526
02:05:01,200 --> 02:05:06,834
Now, during the course
of talking to Mr. Echols,

2527
02:05:06,834 --> 02:05:11,200
did you ask him who did he
think did it and why?

2528
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:13,500
In one area he says

2529
02:05:13,500 --> 02:05:16,967
he had an opinion for who
could've done the murders

2530
02:05:16,967 --> 02:05:18,300
as being someone sick

2531
02:05:18,300 --> 02:05:20,867
and that it was
some type of thrill kill.

2532
02:05:20,867 --> 02:05:23,633
He also stated that the penis
was a symbol of power

2533
02:05:23,633 --> 02:05:25,800
in his religion
known as Wicca.

2534
02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:27,800
He also stated that
the number three

2535
02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:30,266
has a sacred number
in the belief.

2536
02:05:30,266 --> 02:05:33,500
Fogelman:
And did he tell you anything
about demonic forces?

2537
02:05:33,500 --> 02:05:36,433
Yes, sir, he said that all
people have a demonic force

2538
02:05:36,433 --> 02:05:38,633
in them and that a person

2539
02:05:38,633 --> 02:05:42,166
would have no control
over that demonic force.

2540
02:05:42,166 --> 02:05:44,000
Price:
Mr. Echols is not
the only person

2541
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:45,867
that told you
that the children,

2542
02:05:45,867 --> 02:05:47,700
the kids probably died
of mutilation, was he?

2543
02:05:47,700 --> 02:05:49,467
Ridge:
No, sir.

2544
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:53,367
Price:
And with Mr. Echols,
you asked him

2545
02:05:53,367 --> 02:05:56,767
something to the effect
of what type of books
did he enjoy reading?

2546
02:05:56,767 --> 02:05:58,700
- Ridge: Yes, sir.
- Okay, and...

2547
02:05:58,700 --> 02:06:02,333
Price:
Um, and he told you,
I'm thinking,

2548
02:06:02,333 --> 02:06:05,834
is it Anton LaVey
and Stephen King?

2549
02:06:05,834 --> 02:06:07,900
- Yes, sir.
- Okay.

2550
02:06:07,900 --> 02:06:10,667
Now, in your opinion,
is there anything unusual

2551
02:06:10,667 --> 02:06:12,200
about those being
the type of books

2552
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:13,567
that Mr. Echols
likes to read?

2553
02:06:13,567 --> 02:06:15,834
( sighing )

2554
02:06:15,834 --> 02:06:18,333
Anton LaVey is a book

2555
02:06:18,333 --> 02:06:22,200
of Satanic rules
and involvement.

2556
02:06:22,200 --> 02:06:25,567
Uh, Stephen King seems to be

2557
02:06:25,567 --> 02:06:28,967
horror movies, horror books,

2558
02:06:28,967 --> 02:06:32,500
and if you're asking
if I felt that was strange,

2559
02:06:32,500 --> 02:06:35,133
- yes, sir, I did.
- All right.

2560
02:06:35,133 --> 02:06:38,767
Now, let me refer you
back to your statement

2561
02:06:38,767 --> 02:06:42,066
that you gave
Officer Ridge.

2562
02:06:42,066 --> 02:06:44,834
Did you tell him in that
statement that you had been

2563
02:06:44,834 --> 02:06:48,033
a member of a white witch group
for five years?

2564
02:06:48,033 --> 02:06:49,867
- No.
- Okay.

2565
02:06:49,867 --> 02:06:53,066
Damien:
I have never been a member
of any group.

2566
02:06:53,066 --> 02:06:54,500
And so, if he put that
in his report,

2567
02:06:54,500 --> 02:06:55,800
you're saying
that's inaccurate.

2568
02:06:55,800 --> 02:06:58,133
- Yes, I am.
- He made that up.

2569
02:06:58,133 --> 02:06:59,967
Yes, I am.

2570
02:06:59,967 --> 02:07:03,633
Davis:
On question number nine,
"How do you think it would--

2571
02:07:03,633 --> 02:07:06,000
the person feels
that did this?"

2572
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:09,100
the answer was,
"Probably makes them feel good.

2573
02:07:09,100 --> 02:07:10,867
Gives them power."

2574
02:07:10,867 --> 02:07:13,133
Now, I guess Officer Ridge
said that, too.

2575
02:07:13,133 --> 02:07:15,066
No, I used common sense
on that.

2576
02:07:15,066 --> 02:07:18,567
- Okay.
- If someone was doing it,
then they must've wanted to.

2577
02:07:18,567 --> 02:07:21,800
And if they were doing
something they wanted to,
it must've made them happy.

2578
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:23,133
I don't think
they were doing it

2579
02:07:23,133 --> 02:07:24,567
because someone
forced them to

2580
02:07:24,567 --> 02:07:25,900
or because
they didn't want to.

2581
02:07:25,900 --> 02:07:29,400
Okay. So in your mind,

2582
02:07:29,400 --> 02:07:33,066
the person that killed
these three kids,

2583
02:07:33,066 --> 02:07:35,900
it's common sense that killing
three eight-ear-old kids

2584
02:07:35,900 --> 02:07:37,600
would make you feel good.

2585
02:07:37,600 --> 02:07:39,567
Whoever did it,
it must have.

2586
02:07:39,567 --> 02:07:41,734
Davis:
Okay. Did you also tell him

2587
02:07:41,734 --> 02:07:44,900
that each person had
a demonic side to them?

2588
02:07:44,900 --> 02:07:48,000
I believe every person has
a good side and a bad side, yes.

2589
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:50,133
Well, did you-- were those
your words when you referred--

2590
02:07:50,133 --> 02:07:51,734
what he's got
written down here,

2591
02:07:51,734 --> 02:07:53,834
he stated that
there was no control

2592
02:07:53,834 --> 02:07:56,033
of the demonic portion
of people?

2593
02:07:56,033 --> 02:07:58,533
He asked me did I think
there were some people

2594
02:07:58,533 --> 02:08:01,066
that they could not
control that side.

2595
02:08:01,066 --> 02:08:02,567
I said,
"Yes, I guess there is."

2596
02:08:02,567 --> 02:08:05,600
David:
It also states
that Damien stated that

2597
02:08:05,600 --> 02:08:08,367
the younger the victim
was made more innocent,

2598
02:08:08,367 --> 02:08:11,734
and in turn, more power
would be given the person
doing the killing.

2599
02:08:11,734 --> 02:08:13,834
- Right.
- Okay. Did you say that?

2600
02:08:13,834 --> 02:08:16,266
- Yes. Mm-hmm.
- Okay, those are your words.

2601
02:08:16,266 --> 02:08:19,400
Did you pick that up
when you were studying
to be a Catholic?

2602
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:23,467
No, I saw that
on several movies, books.

2603
02:08:23,467 --> 02:08:25,300
Davis:
Question number 11,

2604
02:08:25,300 --> 02:08:27,467
when he asked you
how do you think they died,

2605
02:08:27,467 --> 02:08:33,000
and its answer is
mutilation, cut up all three,

2606
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:36,066
heard they were
in the water drowning,

2607
02:08:36,066 --> 02:08:39,800
cut up one more
than the others.

2608
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:44,834
Is that, again,
what Officer Ridge said
and you just agreed?

2609
02:08:44,834 --> 02:08:50,667
No, I had saw that on TV,
newspapers, people talking.

2610
02:08:50,667 --> 02:08:51,900
And...

2611
02:08:55,233 --> 02:08:58,367
you knew it about
the drowning, correct?

2612
02:08:58,367 --> 02:09:00,700
I knew they were in the water.
I didn't know that they drowned.

2613
02:09:00,700 --> 02:09:02,934
You knew that one was cut up
more than the others.

2614
02:09:02,934 --> 02:09:04,367
Damien: He asked me,
"Was it possible--"

2615
02:09:04,367 --> 02:09:05,767
he said, "Do you
think one was hurt

2616
02:09:05,767 --> 02:09:07,633
worse than the others?"
I said,
"Yeah, I guess."

2617
02:09:07,633 --> 02:09:10,900
Davis:
Oh. So again, that particular
area's one of those things

2618
02:09:10,900 --> 02:09:13,834
where Officer Ridge told you
and that wasn't your response.

2619
02:09:13,834 --> 02:09:16,266
You just responded about
the drowning and mutilation.

2620
02:09:16,266 --> 02:09:18,133
If he didn't get
the answer he liked,

2621
02:09:18,133 --> 02:09:20,200
he would go back and try
to get me to say something else.

2622
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:22,166
Davis:
And it's your testimony
specifically

2623
02:09:22,166 --> 02:09:23,600
that you weren't
the one who said

2624
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:25,533
one was cut up
more than the other.

2625
02:09:25,533 --> 02:09:27,533
- No, I did not.
- That it was Officer Ridge
who said that.

2626
02:09:27,533 --> 02:09:29,100
I agreed with him
when he said that.

2627
02:09:29,100 --> 02:09:30,266
Okay.

2628
02:09:30,266 --> 02:09:32,333
And if he says something
different, that'd be--

2629
02:09:32,333 --> 02:09:34,033
He'd-- he'd be lying
about it, right?

2630
02:09:34,033 --> 02:09:35,500
You're the one
telling the truth.

2631
02:09:35,500 --> 02:09:37,300
I wouldn't
put it past him.

2632
02:09:42,033 --> 02:09:44,533
Lax:
Damien, we're getting
close to the end now.

2633
02:09:44,533 --> 02:09:47,667
How do you feel so far?

2634
02:09:47,667 --> 02:09:49,133
I feel good so far.

2635
02:09:49,133 --> 02:09:52,367
So far, to me it looks like
we've got it beat.

2636
02:09:52,367 --> 02:09:55,667
Lax:
What do you think
the worst thing for us

2637
02:09:55,667 --> 02:09:57,100
right now has been?

2638
02:09:57,100 --> 02:09:59,133
In the three weeks
we've been over here,

2639
02:09:59,133 --> 02:10:01,667
what has hurt the most?

2640
02:10:01,667 --> 02:10:04,166
I only know of two things
that have really hurt:

2641
02:10:04,166 --> 02:10:06,233
that one kid getting up
there with Jason.

2642
02:10:06,233 --> 02:10:09,734
- Yeah.
- And, um, those girls.

2643
02:10:09,734 --> 02:10:11,934
Lax:
The Thursday's newspaper
which addressed

2644
02:10:11,934 --> 02:10:15,467
you testifying
on Wednesday was real good.

2645
02:10:15,467 --> 02:10:17,467
It talked about
that you did well,

2646
02:10:17,467 --> 02:10:20,800
but Friday's regarding
your Thursday testimony
wasn't as good.

2647
02:10:20,800 --> 02:10:22,100
What do you think?

2648
02:10:22,100 --> 02:10:23,767
I think I did real good
in the first day,

2649
02:10:23,767 --> 02:10:25,600
and the second day
it didn't look as good

2650
02:10:25,600 --> 02:10:28,834
because Davis kept trying
to trip me up or something.

2651
02:10:28,834 --> 02:10:32,033
Lax:
There was one point in there,
though, where he asked you,

2652
02:10:32,033 --> 02:10:36,367
he says it looks like
you're just changing your story

2653
02:10:36,367 --> 02:10:38,734
to fit whatever comes up.

2654
02:10:38,734 --> 02:10:40,934
And you said, "Yeah."

2655
02:10:40,934 --> 02:10:43,834
I was just, like,
halfway listening to him.

2656
02:10:43,834 --> 02:10:46,500
After all, I was--
I was real nervous
when I first got up there,

2657
02:10:46,500 --> 02:10:48,900
and I have to keep my attention
focused and everything,

2658
02:10:48,900 --> 02:10:51,000
but after I was up there
a few minutes,

2659
02:10:51,000 --> 02:10:54,200
I started daydreaming.

2660
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:56,333
Lax:
Daydreaming.

2661
02:10:56,333 --> 02:11:00,300
( chuckles )

2662
02:11:00,300 --> 02:11:04,467
Maybe they'll only halfway
kill you when they convict you.

2663
02:11:04,467 --> 02:11:05,834
- Halfway?
- Yeah.

2664
02:11:05,834 --> 02:11:07,800
- How'll they do that?
- I don't know.

2665
02:11:07,800 --> 02:11:12,734
Maybe they'll start daydreaming
and forget what they're doing.

2666
02:11:12,734 --> 02:11:17,000
Anything wrong with
wearing black in and of itself?

2667
02:11:17,000 --> 02:11:19,200
No.

2668
02:11:19,200 --> 02:11:22,934
Anything wrong
with the heavy metal stuff
in and of itself? No.

2669
02:11:22,934 --> 02:11:26,834
The Book of Shadows,
anything wrong with that
in and of itself? No.

2670
02:11:26,834 --> 02:11:28,967
But when you look at it
together, and you get,

2671
02:11:28,967 --> 02:11:33,433
you begin to see inside
Damien Echols,

2672
02:11:33,433 --> 02:11:36,033
you see inside that person.

2673
02:11:36,033 --> 02:11:39,000
And you look inside there
and there's not a soul in there.

2674
02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:41,000
My client is a teenager,

2675
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:44,000
and we certainly didn't hide
that fact from you.

2676
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:46,367
And the fact that my client
did some writings--

2677
02:11:46,367 --> 02:11:49,133
take these back,
go back and read 'em,
go read all these.

2678
02:11:49,133 --> 02:11:52,900
But this, in and of itself,
is no evidence of murder.

2679
02:11:52,900 --> 02:11:54,934
And even if you add in
all the other things,

2680
02:11:54,934 --> 02:11:58,900
quote, "trappings of occultism,"
according to Dr. Griffiths,

2681
02:11:58,900 --> 02:12:01,467
that has nothing
to do with this case
whatsoever.

2682
02:12:01,467 --> 02:12:05,066
Is it a coincidence,

2683
02:12:05,066 --> 02:12:08,800
this knife is found
behind in the lake,

2684
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:12,867
hidden behind
Jason Baldwin's house?

2685
02:12:12,867 --> 02:12:15,934
There are marks
on Christopher Byers,

2686
02:12:15,934 --> 02:12:19,100
where you got,
like a dash where it's cut,

2687
02:12:19,100 --> 02:12:23,300
a cut, an open space,
a cut and an open space.

2688
02:12:23,300 --> 02:12:28,567
And if you take this knife
and do that,

2689
02:12:28,567 --> 02:12:30,967
you can see it leaves

2690
02:12:30,967 --> 02:12:34,767
a cut and an open space,
cut and an open space.

2691
02:12:34,767 --> 02:12:37,967
Now if you take...

2692
02:12:37,967 --> 02:12:43,066
this knife, exhibit...

2693
02:12:43,066 --> 02:12:46,033
defense exhibit six,

2694
02:12:46,033 --> 02:12:48,767
and even with
the slightest pressure...

2695
02:12:48,767 --> 02:12:51,100
It makes a straight line.

2696
02:12:51,100 --> 02:12:53,867
Crime scene.

2697
02:12:53,867 --> 02:12:59,200
It doesn't fit for a kid
to bleed to death

2698
02:12:59,200 --> 02:13:01,533
and not leave
a drop behind.

2699
02:13:01,533 --> 02:13:04,633
For all the other
injuries to their faces,

2700
02:13:04,633 --> 02:13:07,734
these other injuries
are gonna bleed, too.

2701
02:13:07,734 --> 02:13:10,300
And there's not
a drop of blood?

2702
02:13:10,300 --> 02:13:12,200
Not a drop of blood?

2703
02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:13,800
Look at history,

2704
02:13:13,800 --> 02:13:17,533
look at hundreds of years
of religious history.

2705
02:13:17,533 --> 02:13:21,967
There have been hundreds
of people killed in the name
of religion.

2706
02:13:21,967 --> 02:13:23,800
It is a motivating force.

2707
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:26,800
It gives people
who want to do evil,

2708
02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:28,567
want to commit murders,

2709
02:13:28,567 --> 02:13:31,367
a reason to do
what they're doing.

2710
02:13:31,367 --> 02:13:35,333
Ford:
Satanic panic.

2711
02:13:35,333 --> 02:13:38,700
Yeah, that's a scary thing.

2712
02:13:38,700 --> 02:13:41,867
But it's a scarier thing
to convict someone
with no evidence.

2713
02:13:41,867 --> 02:13:44,600
If you can't figure it out,
if it doesn't make sense,

2714
02:13:44,600 --> 02:13:46,433
let's call it
a cult killing,

2715
02:13:46,433 --> 02:13:51,066
and find somebody weird!

2716
02:13:51,066 --> 02:13:54,667
Find somebody
who wears black!

2717
02:13:54,667 --> 02:14:00,633
But they let one thing
go by the wayside:

2718
02:14:00,633 --> 02:14:05,166
is that there's nothing that
links Jason to these activities.

2719
02:14:05,166 --> 02:14:09,667
Not one witness says,
"That's what he does,
that's his beliefs."

2720
02:14:09,667 --> 02:14:11,400
We don't have a writing,
no drawing,

2721
02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:15,233
not a picture,
not a person, nothing...

2722
02:14:15,233 --> 02:14:17,467
links him to it.

2723
02:14:17,467 --> 02:14:20,567
But that doesn't matter.
That didn't matter to them.

2724
02:14:20,567 --> 02:14:22,800
Because he's sitting over there
with Damien.

2725
02:14:22,800 --> 02:14:24,433
They want you to convict him.

2726
02:14:24,433 --> 02:14:30,266
Guilt by association
is a horrible thing.

2727
02:14:30,266 --> 02:14:32,734
( camera shutters clicking )

2728
02:14:38,166 --> 02:14:40,333
Reporter:
Damien, do you think
he looks like you?

2729
02:14:40,333 --> 02:14:42,200
I don't know.

2730
02:14:42,200 --> 02:14:45,667
Not really. I think
he's got Domini's ears.

2731
02:14:45,667 --> 02:14:48,000
( camera shutters clicking )

2732
02:14:55,767 --> 02:14:58,033
Reporter
Can you change
his diapers, Damien?

2733
02:14:58,033 --> 02:14:59,033
Hopefully not.

2734
02:14:59,033 --> 02:15:00,633
( giggling )

2735
02:15:08,400 --> 02:15:10,367
Reporter
So do you think you'll
be spending more time

2736
02:15:10,367 --> 02:15:11,533
with your child, Damien?

2737
02:15:11,533 --> 02:15:14,467
Hopefully.
I hope.

2738
02:15:20,233 --> 02:15:22,000
Man:
Come on, Damien,
it's time.

2739
02:15:26,734 --> 02:15:29,200
( indistinct chatter)

2740
02:15:33,834 --> 02:15:36,600
( mumbling )

2741
02:15:44,300 --> 02:15:47,233
Man:
So what's his first words
gonna be, not guilty?

2742
02:15:47,233 --> 02:15:51,734
Um, his first words
will be capital murder.

2743
02:15:51,734 --> 02:15:53,433
( chuckles )

2744
02:16:06,533 --> 02:16:08,266
Ford:
What's it feel like to be--

2745
02:16:08,266 --> 02:16:10,433
to go through
a month-long trial,

2746
02:16:10,433 --> 02:16:13,000
accused of something
you didn't do?

2747
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:14,500
Horrible.

2748
02:16:16,500 --> 02:16:17,667
( bang )

2749
02:16:19,033 --> 02:16:20,734
Ford:
Are you nervous now?

2750
02:16:20,734 --> 02:16:23,133
- Yeah.
- I mean, there's nothing
we can do right now

2751
02:16:23,133 --> 02:16:25,100
but sit around
and wait, but...

2752
02:16:25,100 --> 02:16:28,734
um, you-- you got anything
you want to ask me?

2753
02:16:31,900 --> 02:16:36,100
Where do we go when, um,
the jury comes back out
and says I'm not guilty?

2754
02:16:36,100 --> 02:16:38,834
( chuckles )

2755
02:16:38,834 --> 02:16:40,667
Well,
where do you wanna go?

2756
02:16:40,667 --> 02:16:42,800
- I don't know.
- Where do you want to go?

2757
02:16:42,800 --> 02:16:44,266
- Disneyland, maybe.
- Would you?

2758
02:16:44,266 --> 02:16:46,166
- Would you like
to go to Disneyland?
- Yeah.

2759
02:16:46,166 --> 02:16:48,734
Have you--
have you ever been
anywhere out of--

2760
02:16:48,734 --> 02:16:51,233
have you ever been
on a trip at all?

2761
02:16:51,233 --> 02:16:55,400
- Haver Springs.
- Haver Springs.

2762
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:57,333
Well, I'll tell you what,
my man, I-I--

2763
02:16:57,333 --> 02:17:00,600
It'd be a joy to take you.

2764
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:02,934
Would you like to go?
You would, wouldn't you?

2765
02:17:02,934 --> 02:17:04,166
Jason: Yeah.

2766
02:17:04,166 --> 02:17:07,767
Ford:
Do you understand now
why we, uh...

2767
02:17:07,767 --> 02:17:09,633
why we didn't want you
to testify?

2768
02:17:09,633 --> 02:17:12,467
Yeah.

2769
02:17:12,467 --> 02:17:13,867
Can you see
how it hurt Damien?

2770
02:17:13,867 --> 02:17:15,734
You-- I think it did.

2771
02:17:15,734 --> 02:17:17,934
And then see how they talked
about his witnesses.

2772
02:17:17,934 --> 02:17:21,166
- Mm-hmm.
- See, they don't have anything
to talk about us.

2773
02:17:21,166 --> 02:17:22,700
They don't have anything
to talk about,

2774
02:17:22,700 --> 02:17:25,700
cause we didn't
give them a chance.

2775
02:17:25,700 --> 02:17:27,500
And, uh...

2776
02:17:29,667 --> 02:17:31,533
( sighing )
Oh, man.

2777
02:17:31,533 --> 02:17:33,033
It's heavy.

2778
02:17:37,633 --> 02:17:41,433
Do you think that,
um, this'll change at all?

2779
02:17:43,934 --> 02:17:46,500
How you treat your friends?

2780
02:17:46,500 --> 02:17:47,567
Yeah.

2781
02:17:49,600 --> 02:17:51,567
What do you think
this would do?

2782
02:17:51,567 --> 02:17:53,600
What do you think this
is gonna do to you and Damien?

2783
02:17:53,600 --> 02:17:56,033
You and your friendship
with Damien?

2784
02:17:57,667 --> 02:18:00,300
( bang )

2785
02:18:00,300 --> 02:18:02,000
Stop it, I guess.

2786
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:04,166
Would you stop being
his friend?

2787
02:18:04,166 --> 02:18:07,033
I wouldn't be his enemy,
but after this,

2788
02:18:07,033 --> 02:18:09,033
I probably wouldn't
be around or nothing.

2789
02:18:09,033 --> 02:18:11,667
You-you heard
what was said about him.

2790
02:18:11,667 --> 02:18:13,133
Do you think
he could have done it?

2791
02:18:16,266 --> 02:18:17,867
Isn't that what they said?

2792
02:18:17,867 --> 02:18:19,333
Yeah, you think
he could have,

2793
02:18:19,333 --> 02:18:22,200
do you thank Damien could have
killed those little boys?

2794
02:18:34,233 --> 02:18:38,834
They made it
seem like he did.

2795
02:18:38,834 --> 02:18:41,467
- What do you think?
- I don't know.

2796
02:18:45,633 --> 02:18:47,300
If you were on that jury,
you'd have--

2797
02:18:47,300 --> 02:18:51,133
would you have a hard time
letting him go?

2798
02:18:51,133 --> 02:18:53,500
Based on what you heard?

2799
02:18:53,500 --> 02:18:55,000
Yeah.

2800
02:19:01,867 --> 02:19:03,767
I would, too.

2801
02:19:03,767 --> 02:19:06,166
Would you let
yourself go?

2802
02:19:09,367 --> 02:19:13,667
Yeah. If I was up there,
I'd let myself go, yeah.

2803
02:19:15,533 --> 02:19:17,233
That's what
I wanted to hear.

2804
02:19:17,233 --> 02:19:18,900
Ford:
'Cause you know you
didn't do it, don't you?

2805
02:19:18,900 --> 02:19:19,967
Yeah.

2806
02:19:22,834 --> 02:19:26,867
Lax:
Did Paul surprise you
on his closing?

2807
02:19:26,867 --> 02:19:28,700
Damien:
I think Paul
should have left out

2808
02:19:28,700 --> 02:19:30,600
the guilt
by association part.

2809
02:19:30,600 --> 02:19:32,700
- That's not--
- He came down hard
on that, didn't he?

2810
02:19:32,700 --> 02:19:34,100
Mm-hmm.

2811
02:19:34,100 --> 02:19:35,700
Did you have any idea
he was gonna do that?

2812
02:19:35,700 --> 02:19:37,900
Hmm-mm.

2813
02:19:37,900 --> 02:19:41,867
I thought he'd be smart
enough to stay away from it.

2814
02:19:41,867 --> 02:19:43,367
Hurt your feelings?

2815
02:19:45,133 --> 02:19:47,100
I wanted to strangle him.

2816
02:19:47,100 --> 02:19:48,066
( chuckles )

2817
02:19:52,433 --> 02:19:54,033
Were you watching
the jury?

2818
02:19:54,033 --> 02:19:55,967
Mm-hmm.

2819
02:19:55,967 --> 02:19:58,600
How do you pick it?

2820
02:19:58,600 --> 02:20:00,000
With my finger. No.

2821
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:03,467
( nervous chuckling )

2822
02:20:03,467 --> 02:20:06,567
Now I think
it was probably about 60/40.

2823
02:20:06,567 --> 02:20:09,200
40 for and 60 against.

2824
02:20:12,700 --> 02:20:16,166
Once you get out of here,
you gonna buy the beer?

2825
02:20:16,166 --> 02:20:20,033
The whiskey.
I don't know about beer.

2826
02:20:21,900 --> 02:20:23,500
And I'll buy
the Bojangles chicken.

2827
02:20:23,500 --> 02:20:25,500
( chuckling )

2828
02:20:31,333 --> 02:20:33,033
I want to get a cigar,

2829
02:20:33,033 --> 02:20:36,000
cut it open and dump
all the tobacco out,

2830
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:38,000
fill it with marijuana,

2831
02:20:38,000 --> 02:20:40,266
smoke the whole thing.

2832
02:20:40,266 --> 02:20:41,633
I mean, we gotta
get you out of here.

2833
02:20:41,633 --> 02:20:43,967
You gotta go to work
where you can pay my bill.

2834
02:20:46,333 --> 02:20:49,166
I need to get a job
at a gas station or something.

2835
02:20:49,166 --> 02:20:51,700
Change my name
to Bob Smith.

2836
02:20:51,700 --> 02:20:53,533
All right,
ladies and gentlemen,

2837
02:20:53,533 --> 02:20:56,800
the bailiffs inform me, uh,
that you've arrived at verdicts.

2838
02:20:56,800 --> 02:20:58,734
If you-- if you have,
pass 'em to the bailiff,

2839
02:20:58,734 --> 02:20:59,900
please, or the sheriff
and...

2840
02:21:02,400 --> 02:21:04,200
Okay, thank you.

2841
02:21:22,900 --> 02:21:24,800
The first verdict
reads as follows.

2842
02:21:24,800 --> 02:21:27,867
"We jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder

2843
02:21:27,867 --> 02:21:29,767
in the death
of Stevie Branch.

2844
02:21:29,767 --> 02:21:34,200
We the jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder

2845
02:21:34,200 --> 02:21:37,100
in the death of Chris Byers.

2846
02:21:37,100 --> 02:21:40,000
We the jury find Damien Echols
guilty of capital murder

2847
02:21:40,000 --> 02:21:42,100
in the death of Michael Moore.

2848
02:21:42,100 --> 02:21:45,500
We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder

2849
02:21:45,500 --> 02:21:47,834
in the death of Chris Byers.

2850
02:21:47,834 --> 02:21:51,233
We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder

2851
02:21:51,233 --> 02:21:54,166
in the death of Stevie Branch.

2852
02:21:54,166 --> 02:21:57,266
We the jury find Jason Baldwin
guilty of capital murder

2853
02:21:57,266 --> 02:21:59,100
in the death of Michael Moore."

2854
02:21:59,100 --> 02:22:02,867
All of the verdicts
are signed by the foreman.

2855
02:22:02,867 --> 02:22:04,300
And ladies and gentlemen,

2856
02:22:04,300 --> 02:22:06,400
it's necessary
at this time that the court

2857
02:22:06,400 --> 02:22:11,533
poll the jury
as to all six verdicts, so...

2858
02:22:11,533 --> 02:22:13,700
- ( screaming )
- ...when your name is called,

2859
02:22:13,700 --> 02:22:17,934
if these six verdicts represent
your individual verdict,

2860
02:22:17,934 --> 02:22:21,767
then answer yes
as your name is called.

2861
02:22:21,767 --> 02:22:23,900
Juror number one.

2862
02:22:23,900 --> 02:22:26,033
- Juror
- Woman: Juror number two.

2863
02:22:26,033 --> 02:22:27,400
Juror

2864
02:22:27,400 --> 02:22:29,033
Woman:
Juror number three.

2865
02:22:29,033 --> 02:22:30,333
Juror

2866
02:22:30,333 --> 02:22:33,033
Woman:
Juror number four.

2867
02:22:33,033 --> 02:22:36,433
( sobbing )

2868
02:22:36,433 --> 02:22:39,367
- Woman: Juror number five.
- Juror

2869
02:22:39,367 --> 02:22:42,300
- Woman: Juror number six.
- Juror

2870
02:22:42,300 --> 02:22:44,633
- Woman: Juror number seven.
- Juror

2871
02:22:44,633 --> 02:22:47,233
The prosecution didn't have
any evidence,

2872
02:22:47,233 --> 02:22:49,533
but they don't care.

2873
02:22:49,533 --> 02:22:52,333
Just because somebody wears
black and has different beliefs,

2874
02:22:52,333 --> 02:22:54,300
they're gonna convict them
of something.

2875
02:22:54,300 --> 02:22:57,200
Poor, poor, parents.
Yeah, I'm sorry for them.

2876
02:22:57,200 --> 02:23:00,500
- But...
- I ain't. I ain't sorry
for them.

2877
02:23:00,500 --> 02:23:02,100
I'm sorry for the kids.

2878
02:23:02,100 --> 02:23:03,867
I don't give a damn about
the parents,

2879
02:23:03,867 --> 02:23:07,133
- but I'm sorry for the kids.
- I ain't even sorry for them.

2880
02:23:07,133 --> 02:23:09,266
I'm not sorry for anybody.

2881
02:23:09,266 --> 02:23:12,266
There is no reason they...

2882
02:23:12,266 --> 02:23:14,400
killed three more boys.

2883
02:23:14,400 --> 02:23:16,066
It didn't do
a damn thing.

2884
02:23:16,066 --> 02:23:17,433
( sobbing )

2885
02:23:17,433 --> 02:23:20,000
So right now,
I wish I was a witch.

2886
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:21,967
Talk about a spell
on somebody?

2887
02:23:21,967 --> 02:23:25,166
Boy, I'd put
a good one on.

2888
02:23:25,166 --> 02:23:27,433
I guess Gitchell
goes out with a big bang.

2889
02:23:27,433 --> 02:23:30,200
Didn't know he was
fuckin' gonna retire.

2890
02:23:30,200 --> 02:23:31,700
Woman:
He's already said
he was gonna retire.

2891
02:23:31,700 --> 02:23:34,834
Now he's probably
gonna run for office.

2892
02:23:34,834 --> 02:23:38,367
I got an office for him.

2893
02:23:38,367 --> 02:23:39,700
Mayor of hell.

2894
02:23:39,700 --> 02:23:42,767
Far as I'm concerned,
West Memphis can go to hell.

2895
02:23:42,767 --> 02:23:44,800
Woman:
West Memphis is hell.

2896
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:47,934
I have,
uh, put my 20 years in,

2897
02:23:47,934 --> 02:23:50,967
and hopefully
this is the last case

2898
02:23:50,967 --> 02:23:53,967
I'll have
of this magnitude.

2899
02:23:53,967 --> 02:23:55,900
Hopefully
it's my last case.

2900
02:23:55,900 --> 02:23:59,200
And, uh, I'm leaving
on a high note,

2901
02:23:59,200 --> 02:24:00,900
so there's
no better way to leave

2902
02:24:00,900 --> 02:24:03,567
than with your head up
high and proud.

2903
02:24:04,667 --> 02:24:08,433
Well, you know,
I-I don't...

2904
02:24:08,433 --> 02:24:11,700
I'm not surprised if that--
that's what you're asking.

2905
02:24:11,700 --> 02:24:14,600
You know, I told you earlier
that I thought the evidence was

2906
02:24:14,600 --> 02:24:17,066
more than sufficient
to make those findings.

2907
02:24:17,066 --> 02:24:19,333
They won't kill
no more babies.

2908
02:24:19,333 --> 02:24:23,200
No more babies
will they kill.

2909
02:24:23,200 --> 02:24:25,333
Let's go.

2910
02:24:25,333 --> 02:24:26,867
Mmm.

2911
02:24:29,200 --> 02:24:31,767
Make sure you put locks--
go ahead, right behind him.

2912
02:24:37,633 --> 02:24:40,533
Hand me those gadgets.
Yeah.

2913
02:24:40,533 --> 02:24:42,066
Officer:
The black one
and blue-- blue.

2914
02:24:42,066 --> 02:24:44,467
Man:
Here you go.

2915
02:24:44,467 --> 02:24:45,967
Let me put this here.

2916
02:24:54,667 --> 02:24:56,333
Here we go.

2917
02:24:56,333 --> 02:24:58,400
( indistinct instructions )

2918
02:25:20,367 --> 02:25:21,800
- Ready?
- Yup.

2919
02:25:38,066 --> 02:25:41,066
( chatter )

2920
02:25:41,066 --> 02:25:42,500
- Woman: You gonna get out.
- Woman

2921
02:25:42,500 --> 02:25:43,900
Reporter:
Do you have any comment on...

2922
02:25:43,900 --> 02:25:45,834
- Woman: You gonna get out.
- Woman

2923
02:25:45,834 --> 02:25:47,266
Reporter
What'd you think about
the verdict?

2924
02:25:47,266 --> 02:25:49,300
Reporter:
Damien, did you do it?

2925
02:25:49,300 --> 02:25:50,867
Man:
You're gonna fry, Damien!

2926
02:25:50,867 --> 02:25:52,600
Man
How you feeling now, Damien?

2927
02:25:52,600 --> 02:25:55,767
Woman:
You're gonna fry, Damien.

2928
02:25:55,767 --> 02:25:57,066
Man:
What do you think, Jason?

2929
02:25:57,066 --> 02:25:58,900
Man:
Gonna fry!

2930
02:25:58,900 --> 02:26:00,333
Woman:
See you in hell, Damien.

2931
02:26:00,333 --> 02:26:02,400
Man:
We know you're innocent, Jason.

2932
02:26:09,800 --> 02:26:11,300
( engine revving )

2933
02:26:30,633 --> 02:26:35,967
( crowd clamoring )

2934
02:26:35,967 --> 02:26:38,400
I knew from when I
was real small

2935
02:26:38,400 --> 02:26:41,300
that people were gonna
know who I was.

2936
02:26:41,300 --> 02:26:42,800
I always had that feeling.

2937
02:26:42,800 --> 02:26:47,633
But I just never knew how
they were gonna learn.

2938
02:26:47,633 --> 02:26:48,900
Hmm.

2939
02:26:48,900 --> 02:26:51,233
I kind of enjoy it
because now even after I die,

2940
02:26:51,233 --> 02:26:54,000
people are going
to remember me forever.

2941
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:55,633
They're gonna talk
about me for years.

2942
02:26:55,633 --> 02:27:00,200
People in West Memphis will tell
their kids stories.

2943
02:27:00,200 --> 02:27:01,934
It-it-it'll be like,

2944
02:27:01,934 --> 02:27:05,033
sort of, like,
I'm the West Memphis boogeyman.

2945
02:27:05,033 --> 02:27:06,734
Little kids will be looking
under their bed

2946
02:27:06,734 --> 02:27:07,800
before they go to bed.

2947
02:27:07,800 --> 02:27:10,266
"Damien might be under there."

2948
02:27:35,066 --> 02:27:37,867
( air hissing )

2949
02:27:37,867 --> 02:27:39,867
( music playing )